Bob and list members,
What other feature(s) (other than the "M" cut-out in the bottom bracket of Carlsbad, CA made Masi's) clearly distinguish the Italian made Masi's from the CA made Masi's?
I suppose the Italian made Masi G.C.'s had the original first generation Campagnolo script-less brake calipers (like the Masi's I saw on display here in San Francisco at the Velo-Swap a while back.)
My guess is that in addition to the first generation Campagnolo brake calipers, the Italian made Masi G.C.'s were equipped with the 151bcd cranks.
Lastly, I saw some discussion a while back about seat stay caps. Were different caps installed in the Italian made Masi's and the Carlsbad made Masi's?
I would read the archives, but I suffer from A.D.D.
Ted Baer
Palo Alto, CA
> In a message dated 7/30/2004 5:55:29 PM Eastern
> Daylight Time, Ray writes:
> My observations on this topic began with me trying
> to understand the
> reason for the difference in price between the two.
> No where did I ever
> compare the two as being equal. In fact I went to
> great pains to say. Both
> had been repainted so that could not be a factor,
> both were mismarked so
> that could not be a factor. One had a mix of
> undesirable components but
> the other had no or a few insignificant components
> so that could not be
> it. My conclusion was therefore was the date of the
> frame had to be the
> determining factor. Now if that is the case and this
> is the less desirable
> mid 80s version what would an equally equipped and
> finished late 70s model
> bring in comparison. Look at the subtile but clear
> question I just asked.
> I did not say they are equal, I asked what if one
> was a late 70s vs a mid
> 80s equally equipped. Sheesh! Now I know how wars
> get started.
>
> Ray Homiski
> Elizabeth, NJ
>
>
> Ray;
>
> I was one of the folks who responded to your
> original query, and please be
> assured I was not trying to start a war or even be
> argumentative... I was merely
> trying to address your comment/question:
>
> > I say bah! Look at
> > this one that closed recently. The only difference
> I see is the date which
> > must be the main value factor.
>
>
> As I tried to convey in my reply, there were far
> more differences between
> those two bikes than just their respective dates.
> The construction details
> (which I feel to be the primary factor that sets
> them apart) of the '86 San Marcos
> Gran Crit and the late '60s Masi Special really have
> little to do with the
> date (aside from a sad tendency for the quality and
> quantity of hand work and
> traditional craftsmanship to diminish over time in
> many production frames). For
> example, with some bikes (like the products of many
> of the one-man shops) the
> very opposite is true... ovarall craftsmanship and
> quality often improves over
> time because the builder has gotten better and in
> addition may be less
> willing to compromise (and his reputation having
> grown, may find himself in a
> position where he is able to charge a higher price
> which saves him from having to
> constantly examine every little cost-cutting and
> labor-saving measure as the big
> manufacturers feel they must do).
>
> To try to find a single factor (like the date) that
> would explain the
> difference in price we see in this example probably
> serves little purpose (at least
> to be useful as a rule of thumb) since there are
> many cases where the other
> factors you mentioned earlier in you message
> (overall condition, quality of
> components) in addtion to things like demand for a
> particular frame size,
> uniqueness of history (of the builder, or race
> history, or owner), would play a greater
> part.
>
>
> Now, for your next question (prices of 70's vs. 80's
> Gran Crits), I have 68
> California Masis in my photo collection. Not all of
> them have prices and a few
> are 3V's, but as best as I can determine, the 70's
> Masis sold for an average
> of $1,140 ($380-$2350, 20 examples) while the 80's
> Masis sold for an average
> of $890 ($360-$1,700, 22 examples). Keep in mind
> that the difference in value
> is really far greater than these figures represent
> because the 70's examples
> include six bare frames (one forkless) while the
> 80's examples include only
> one bare frame.
>
>
> Respectfully yours,
> Bob Hovey
> Columbus, GA
>
> BTW, to correct a tiny point in your message,
> above... both bikes have not
> been repainted or 'mismarked', only the Special. To
> the best of my knowledge,
> the San Marcos bike has it's original paint and
> decals.
>
>
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