>From Micks Posting 22 May 2004
...Harry (spanner) Rensch started building around the 1935 mark. He first visited the Paris show in 1935 and came back with two ideas that he saw there. First the idea of welded frame construction as used by the cycles in the Tour de France and secondly the idea for the Galibier. The 35 show exhibited a Jaques Schultz machine which is very similar in looks to the Paris Galibier. As soon as Harry returned he pioneered the welded frame in Great Britain and was up and running by 1936 with welded frames. By 1938 Rensch production output was about 45% welded and 55% brazed. References 38 & 39 Rensch catalogues, 40s & 50's Accles & Pollock Kromo tubing adverts in the British Cycling Press.
Claud Butler not to be out done by a competitor started experimenting with welded frames in 1937 and exhibited their first welded model the "Massed Start" at the 1938 earls Court Cycle Show. ... Reference The Cyclist's November 9the. 1938.
As I said previously in my CR postings Claud and Harry were the UK pioneers in welded frame construction.
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Fred Grubb was making and selling welded frames in 1934. There is a welded Grubb Kingston recumbent, bought in 1934 by Mr Smith of Rothesay, Scotland, in the Glasgow Museum of Transport. A 1934 recumbent had to be welded, as he would be unable to get suitable lugs for it. Data & pics on my site, http://homepage.ntlworld.com/
Sandy Holdsworth trotted over to France too (like Harry Rensch) from time to time, indeed in 1933 he and Margaret appear to have had a nice tax-deductable jolly testing the new (lugged) Mistral and Stelvio models on an 500 mile Alpine tour, no doubt at TdF time. (ref 1934 cat)
In 1935 or 36 Sandy brought Bruno Roth's welded TdF bike back with him. (ref Bill Hurlow) Holdsworth launched the La Quelda in 1936, a steel welded frame (very like Bruno's no doubt), see http://homepage.ntlworld.com/
I think what has happened here is the changing nomenclature problem. Welded cycles in the early 30's used Reynolds HM and maybe others, but 531 was launched in 1935. Some makers adopted the new 531, but 531 couldn't take the heat and proved snappy, getting welded frames a bad rap (ref Peter Duncan). So builders (bar Holdsworth) switched to 'low temperature welding', which I assume is what we now call 'filet brazing', 531 is OK with that heat. Holdsworth instead promoted Reynolds HM on the La Quelda, as HM took the heat OK , proclaiming they used this tubing as it was specially designed for high temp welding! Indeed the 1939 catalogue claims La Quelda is the only steel welded cycle now on offer, other makes being low temperature welded. The 1939 Holds cat grudgingly offers 531 as an option on La Quelda (see LQ Flyer on my LQ page) but again I suspect propaganda, so the other makers do not look to be ahead of them. If you chose 531 I think they would move heaven and earth to convince you to go for HM instead.
However immediately after the war, Holdsworth switched to "bronze welding" (low temp welding?) and 531 on La Quelda, so if Holds 1939 cat is to be believed, all manufacturers welded frames were now low temp welded, perhaps this is why the writer quoted above simply referred to 'welded'. May I also mention that Hobbs and Holdsworth were welding aluminium prototype frames in 1947, so they were a tad pioneering too, in frame welding.
All this begs the question; if Harry and Claud were trumpeted as the UK pioneers in welded frames, exactly what made them pioneering? Was this author just wrong, or was it low temperature welding they pioneered and if so, is that what we now call filet brazing? Was the 1938 Massed Start filet brazed?
It is clearly wrong for us now to say they pioneered welding in the UK, if Grubb was welding in 1934. If what they pioneered is what we now call filet brazing. We should say they pioneered filet brazing in the UK, which at the time was called (low-temperature or bronze) welding.
We all work with limited data, some of which proves to be wrong, we are just trying to discover history. I believe that with our collective knowledge and collective libraries we can clarify the history for this period. So:
1) Were Harry's first frames c1935/6 steel welded or fillet brazed? 2) Was Clauds Massed Start in 1938 steel welded or fillet brazed? 3) Was it fillet brazing bike frames that Harry and Claud pioneered? 4) Is it true that these two were also the pioneers of Bi-lam, some 10 years later?
If Harry and Claud were the UK pioneers of fillet brazing in the mid to late 1930's it seems odd to me that they both end up pioneering the idea of Bi-lam in the late 40's too. It seems a big coincidence, that of all the builders who were doing weld-ups by 1948, the same two who allegedly pioneered some form of welding in the 30s, also pioneer Bi-lam. Maybe somebody has got it wrong. Maybe the bi-lam is right but the welding is wrong, or vice versa. I just pose the questions.
Do we have any good evidence, noting Mick's quotes and Hilary's C+ article already given, to support or refute our opinions on these matters?
My next post, in one week, to allow time for reference, reflection and hopefully some answers, will develop this to discuss the credit for inventing Bi-laminated framesets.
Note just for data: I have an Earls Court Show 22 to 29 Sep 1937 official catalogue (188pp). Holdsworth have a stand and La Quelda is shown, but neither Paris's, Rensch, Claud Butler or Grubb have a stand. Not surprising with Grubb, as Fred had gone bust in 1935 and was now limping along as the new, skint, FHG Ltd.
Norman Kilgariff, warming up (in Glasgow, Scotland)
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