Thanks alot for the great recommendations in wide 700c tires. Based on what I've read, I assume that tires for cyclo-cross bikes are closest to what could be considered fat racing tires for the road. Does anyone with these Tufo or Ritchey (also I'm sure there are many other small european brands)tires feel they are as capable on road as decent quality racing tires? Or do the off road treads slow down the roll? Thanks,
Jeremy Lieberman New York City
Original Message: ----------------- From: classicrendezvous-request@bikelist.org Date: Sat, 10 Jul 2004 12:01:48 -0700 To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: Classicrendezvous Digest, Vol 19, Issue 24
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: Re: Small Parts (henox) 2. The Shortened wheelbase... (HM & SS Sachs) 3. Baron and/or Gang! at Renaissance Cycles...Please contact me! (Louis Schulman) 4. ASC Indicator Chain (cmontgomery) 5. Re: Re: Small Parts (r cielec) 6. RE:BRIAN BLUM (Bob Freitas) 7. Claud and Harry, the UK pioneers in welded frame construction ?? (long) (Norman Kilgariff) 8. Sachs 3speed hub periphery (Toni Theilmeier) 9. FS: NOS MONDIA SUPER Frameset 56.5 c-c (Eric Elman) 10. Searching for Lotus Track Bike - 57/58/59 11. Re: Wide Tires 12. Re: 700c 38mm tires? (Doug Stephens) 13. Re: 700c 38mm tires?
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Date: Sat, 10 Jul 2004 17:44:43 -0700 From: "henox" <henox@icycle.net> To: "r cielec" <teaat4p@yahoo.com>, "Steven Willis" <smwillis@verizon.net>, <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org> Subject: Re: [CR]Re: Small Parts Message-ID: <011d01c466e0$42aa9700$efa479a5@pavilion> References: <20040709221139.90257.qmail@web52010.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain;charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 1
Subject: Re: [CR]Re: Small Parts
Richard:
For list readers, like myself, who came in late on this thread, will you please state again specifically what fastener(s) you are looking for that are outside the bicycle mainstream. The diameter and tpi would be helpful.
BTW, apart from original equipment, chromed fasteners are unusual and rarely found at industrial fastener importer/distributor sources.
However, there are one or two suppliers of chromed fasteners to the motorcycle trade.
Hugh Enox La Honda
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Date: Fri, 09 Jul 2004 20:58:09 -0400 From: HM & SS Sachs <sachs@erols.com> To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org, Greg Sachs <ges6@po.cwru.edu> Subject: [CR]The Shortened wheelbase... Message-ID: <40EF3F21.3000007@erols.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 2
I got my funky 1974 Sears Free Spirit a couple of years ago, and have been riding it as a fixed geat commuter for the past year or so. Always wondered if it would have a more sprightly ride if it were shorter than its 41" or 42" (104 - 107 cm) wheelbase.
Be careful what you wish for: you might get it. I now have a 39" WB Sears Free Spirit. Unfortunately, it comes with a near-vertical head angle, buckling of the top and down tubes, and still has the 18"/46 cm chain stays. That and the completely unbent fork reassure me that this reeally was 531DB, just like the stickers say.
It seems that the seasonal park ranger who came around my side of the blind corner on the Bike Path was 6' 4", a rower, and outweighed me by 25# (11 kilo or so). It wasn't quite head-on (but almost), and neither of us was going as much as 15 mph, I think. We both got up off the pavement, counted scrapes, and called it a draw. :-) I am grateful that neither of us seems to have been hurt more than that.
Now, there are several "morals" that can be drawn from this tale (he and I already have notes on how to re-engineer the intersection), but I want to focus on the vintage side. The number of vintage bikes will inexorably decline. I own them to ride them and "work" on them, and if one had to be sacrificed, this was not a bad choice. That's why I used it for commuting, locking it outside on the street in downtown DC. But, it's additional discouragement from taking the really cherished bikes out in situations where I have less control than I like.
And, as a practical matter that has occasionally come up before on this list, establishing the value of a demolished or stolen vintage bike will be more art than science. It didn't cost much, it isn't worth a commercial repair and repaint, but a comparable replacement frame will cost some money and time.
Ah, and I will ask the responsible party to replace the helmet, too. Don't leave home without yours, and replace after each of your crashes. :-)
harvey sachs mcLean VA
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Date: Fri, 09 Jul 2004 21:18:32 -0400 (EDT) From: "Louis Schulman" <louiss@gate.net> To: "classicrendezvous@bikelist.org" <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org> Subject: [CR]Baron and/or Gang! at Renaissance Cycles...Please contact me! Message-ID: <E1Bj6VV-000451-00@hall.mail.mindspring.net> In-Reply-To: <40EF3F21.3000007@erols.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-2" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Reply-To: Louis Schulman <louiss@gate.net> Message: 3
Baron and/or Gang!:
I have been trying to reach you for over a week regarding the purchase of a set of rims on your site. I understand you have a lot going on, but generally speaking, not responding to customers is bad for business, and not really acceptable. Perhaps European practices are different.
Please contact me!
Louis Schulman Tampa, FL
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Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2004 19:57:21 -0700 From: "cmontgomery" <cmontgomery15@cox.net> To: "ClassicRendezvous" <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org> Subject: [CR]ASC Indicator Chain Message-ID: <003601c46629$9e8316e0$4a84e744@D687QV01> Content-Type: text/plain;charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Precedence: list Message: 4
Well I have one for you Anglophile/Sturmey people out there. The indicator chain on my ASC has popped one rivet on a plate, right where it comes out of the wingnut of course. I sweat blood every time I click. Is this fixable or am I SOL?
Craig Montgomery in Tucson
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Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2004 19:43:49 -0700 (PDT) From: r cielec <teaat4p@yahoo.com> To: henox <henox@icycle.net>, Classic Rendezvous <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org> Subject: Re: [CR]Re: Small Parts Message-ID: <20040710024349.89322.qmail@web52004.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <011d01c466e0$42aa9700$efa479a5@pavilion> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 5
Hugh: Thanks for asking. End need is of nut and bolt to fit 1970's era GB clamp around bars. These seem to be a special in that head of bolt is smaller than what would have been appropriate for thread size. GB use an M8 x 1.00 (fine pitch). Length is approx. 33mm.
I just need a fine pitch metric or SAE nut and bolt that will fit.
I thought I could easily find metric stainless steel or chrome socket head cap screw, button head cap screw, nut or, stand-off (I would cut to simulate the "long" nut GB use).
Beyond this immediate need, yes, there is the general need of fasteners and springs for bicycle application much of which should be available through industrial suppliers.
Let's face it - some of this hardware is special but a lot is standard or close to standard and should be available. Stainless steel is standard for food and pharma equipment so, I am puzzled at the difficulty to locate it.
Regards,
Richard Cielec Chicago, Illinois
henox <henox@icycle.net> wrote: Subject: Re: [CR]Re: Small Parts
Richard:
For list readers, like myself, who came in late on this thread, will you please state again specifically what fastener(s) you are looking for that are outside the bicycle mainstream. The diameter and tpi would be helpful.
BTW, apart from original equipment, chromed fasteners are unusual and rarely found at industrial fastener importer/distributor sources.
However, there are one or two suppliers of chromed fasteners to the motorcycle trade.
Hugh Enox La Honda
__________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
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Date: Fri, 09 Jul 2004 20:16:13 -0700 From: Bob Freitas <freitas1@pacbell.net> To: CLASSIC RENDEZVOUS <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org> Subject: [CR]RE:BRIAN BLUM Message-ID: <40EF5F7D.7080608@pacbell.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 6
My EMAIL keeps bouncing back,please contact me about the MOULTON BOB FREITAS MILL VALLEY,CA
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Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2004 20:51:42 -0700 (PDT)
From: Norman Kilgariff <nkilgariff@yahoo.com>
To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
Subject: [CR]
Claud and Harry, the UK pioneers in welded frame construction ?? (long)
Message-ID: <20040710035142.4583.qmail@web51103.mail.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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Precedence: list
Message: 7
>From Micks Posting 22 May 2004
...Harry (spanner) Rensch started building around the 1935 mark. He first visited the Paris show in 1935 and came back with two ideas that he saw there. First the idea of welded frame construction as used by the cycles in the Tour de France and secondly the idea for the Galibier. The 35 show exhibited a Jaques Schultz machine which is very similar in looks to the Paris Galibier. As soon as Harry returned he pioneered the welded frame in Great Britain and was up and running by 1936 with welded frames. By 1938 Rensch production output was about 45% welded and 55% brazed. References 38 & 39 Rensch catalogues, 40s & 50's Accles & Pollock Kromo tubing adverts in the British Cycling Press.
Claud Butler not to be out done by a competitor started experimenting with
welded frames in 1937 and exhibited their first welded model the "Massed
Start" at the 1938 earls Court Cycle Show. ... Reference The Cyclist's
November 9the. 1938.
As I said previously in my CR postings Claud and Harry were the UK pioneers
in welded frame construction.
--------------------- comment ------------------
Fred Grubb was making and selling welded frames in 1934. There is a welded
Grubb Kingston recumbent, bought in 1934 by Mr Smith of Rothesay, Scotland,
in the Glasgow Museum of Transport. A 1934 recumbent had to be welded, as
he would be unable to get suitable lugs for it. Data & pics on my site,
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/
Sandy Holdsworth trotted over to France too (like Harry Rensch) from time to time, indeed in 1933 he and Margaret appear to have had a nice tax-deductable jolly testing the new (lugged) Mistral and Stelvio models on an 500 mile Alpine tour, no doubt at TdF time. (ref 1934 cat)
In 1935 or 36 Sandy brought Bruno Roth's welded TdF bike back with him.
(ref Bill Hurlow) Holdsworth launched the La Quelda in 1936, a steel
welded frame (very like Bruno's no doubt), see
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/
I think what has happened here is the changing nomenclature problem. Welded cycles in the early 30's used Reynolds HM and maybe others, but 531 was launched in 1935. Some makers adopted the new 531, but 531 couldn't take the heat and proved snappy, getting welded frames a bad rap (ref Peter Duncan). So builders (bar Holdsworth) switched to 'low temperature welding', which I assume is what we now call 'filet brazing', 531 is OK with that heat. Holdsworth instead promoted Reynolds HM on the La Quelda, as HM took the heat OK , proclaiming they used this tubing as it was specially designed for high temp welding! Indeed the 1939 catalogue claims La Quelda is the only steel welded cycle now on offer, other makes being low temperature welded. The 1939 Holds cat grudgingly offers 531 as an option on La Quelda (see LQ Flyer on my LQ page) but again I suspect propaganda, so the other makers do not look to be ahead of them. If you chose 531 I think they would move heaven and eart! h to convince you to go for HM instead.
However immediately after the war, Holdsworth switched to "bronze welding" (low temp welding?) and 531 on La Quelda, so if Holds 1939 cat is to be believed, all manufacturers welded frames were now low temp welded, perhaps this is why the writer quoted above simply referred to 'welded'. May I also mention that Hobbs and Holdsworth were welding aluminium prototype frames in 1947, so they were a tad pioneering too, in frame welding.
All this begs the question; if Harry and Claud were trumpeted as the UK pioneers in welded frames, exactly what made them pioneering? Was this author just wrong, or was it low temperature welding they pioneered and if so, is that what we now call filet brazing? Was the 1938 Massed Start filet brazed?
It is clearly wrong for us now to say they pioneered welding in the UK, if Grubb was welding in 1934. If what they pioneered is what we now call filet brazing. We should say they pioneered filet brazing in the UK, which at the time was called (low-temperature or bronze) welding.
We all work with limited data, some of which proves to be wrong, we are just trying to discover history. I believe that with our collective knowledge and collective libraries we can clarify the history for this period. So:
1) Were Harry's first frames c1935/6 steel welded or fillet brazed? 2) Was Clauds Massed Start in 1938 steel welded or fillet brazed? 3) Was it fillet brazing bike frames that Harry and Claud pioneered? 4) Is it true that these two were also the pioneers of Bi-lam, some 10 years later?
If Harry and Claud were the UK pioneers of fillet brazing in the mid to late 1930's it seems odd to me that they both end up pioneering the idea of Bi-lam in the late 40's too. It seems a big coincidence, that of all the builders who were doing weld-ups by 1948, the same two who allegedly pioneered some form of welding in the 30s, also pioneer Bi-lam. Maybe somebody has got it wrong. Maybe the bi-lam is right but the welding is wrong, or vice versa. I just pose the questions.
Do we have any good evidence, noting Mick's quotes and Hilary's C+ article already given, to support or refute our opinions on these matters?
My next post, in one week, to allow time for reference, reflection and hopefully some answers, will develop this to discuss the credit for inventing Bi-laminated framesets.
Note just for data: I have an Earls Court Show 22 to 29 Sep 1937 official catalogue (188pp). Holdsworth have a stand and La Quelda is shown, but neither Paris's, Rensch, Claud Butler or Grubb have a stand. Not surprising with Grubb, as Fred had gone bust in 1935 and was now limping along as the new, skint, FHG Ltd.
Norman Kilgariff, warming up (in Glasgow, Scotland)
--------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other providers!
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Date: Sat, 10 Jul 2004 08:44:21 +0200 From: Toni.Theilmeier@t-online.de (Toni Theilmeier) To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: [CR]Sachs 3speed hub periphery Message-ID: <92E18EEB-D23C-11D8-92E6-0050E49E894D@t-online.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v613) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Precedence: list Message: 8
Hi Rob, got a box full of the stuff; staple diet here in Germany. Would be glad to get rid of some of it. What do you need? 515´s had red anodized metal triggers, cadmium plated roller clamps & outer cable stops. That the ticket?
Regards,
Toni Theilmeier, Belm, Germany.
P.S.: In the case of a sudden disruption of an e-mail conversation with me, please assume that I have given up the medium and contact me in a more traditional way. I am in the trial phase of a last ditch system after some others could not stand my constant abusing them. ------------------------------
Date: Sat, 10 Jul 2004 08:51:31 -0400 From: "Eric Elman" <tr4play@cox.net> To: <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org> Subject: [CR]FS: NOS MONDIA SUPER Frameset 56.5 c-c Message-ID: <001501c4667c$9ff83c00$764ee544@elman1> References: <40EDEED7.4040004@erols.com> Content-Type: text/plain;charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 9
Time to rearrange my "portfolio" of projects. 3 hobbies and limited time and money means it is time to part with some projects that I just don't see how I'll ever get to. I have so much bike and British car stuff and I am now ready to finally let some of it go.
First offering, to the list as always, is my Mondia Super frameset. You can see nice detailed pictures on Dales website:
http://www.classicrendezvous.com/
I believe that she is the rare cyclo-cross frameset or maybe a touring frameset. Headset shown in pictures is not included. Has braze on's for canti's. Original chrome and paint are stunning and perfect save for one tiny paint chip the size of a pencil point. Stunning lug lining and pinstriping. Metal headbadge. Beautiful blue color.
Frame will be properly packaged and shipped at actual cost.
ST is 56.5 c-c; TT is 57.5 c-c; serial number 338233 with 82 repeated in another location. 35x1 NOS fixed BB cup included.
Price is $495.
Questions happily answered.
Eric Elman Somers, CT
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Date: Sat, 10 Jul 2004 06:18:04 -0700 (PDT) From: <biciclassique-velos@yahoo.com> To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: [CR]Searching for Lotus Track Bike - 57/58/59 Message-ID: <20040710131804.60337.qmail@web40308.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <40EC94DE.B53AE38@earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 10
Hi all,
Thought I'd put this out there in hopes that it sits in the back of someone's mind like that dusty bike in the corner of someone's garage or basement!
I'd like to find an early 80's Lotus (of Japan) track bike, either complete or as a frame and fork. Darker colors a plus, but not mandatory (Lotus offered this fantastic, dark metallic greenish-grey color!). Condition needn't be perfect either, just uncrashed or seriously dented/bent.
Cheers,
John Lima Wakefield, RI
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Date: Sat, 10 Jul 2004 11:36:22 EDT From: Cushdelmar@aol.com To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: [CR]Re: Wide Tires Message-ID: <63.2e5302bf.2e2166f6@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 11
The Tufo Elite Diamond Tread with a 220 thread count (real) is a 30mm, 290 gram tire that rides wonderfully. It's actually meant for cross but is fine on the road. The rubber is on the soft side so it's nice in the rain and corners great but the rear will wear out fairly quickly. The downside is that they are either bright yellow or orange.
I recently bought for test purposes some Victoria Pave 24mm tires. I like the feel of them but they are not 24mm tires. I have 23mm tires that are wider. The advertised weight is 290g but mine weighed over 305 grams (not a big deal). Latex tubes may give a better ride but you have to pump these tires up before every ride (and not the night before either). I'm spoiled by Tufos: they lose about 2 psi daily. I actually have women who will ride nothing but Tufos because they only have to pump them up once a month.
But I am prejudiced.
By the way Craig Fenstermaker of Vintage Cycle Studios has taken over my distributorship in Southern California.
Jim Cushing-murray Mountain States Tufo Distributor Del Mar CA but soon to be Frisco Colorado.
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Date: Sat, 10 Jul 2004 12:45:53 -0400 From: "Doug Stephens" <dougstephens@dougstephens.net> To: <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org> Subject: Re: [CR]700c 38mm tires? Message-ID: <MBBBLFKJKJNIBECDFDNGMEEMDKAA.dougstephens@dougstephens.net> In-Reply-To: <CATFOODm4W0qm4m3Ax600002f7e@catfood.nt.phred.org> Content-Type: text/plain;charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 12
Ritchey Tom Slicks come in a 700c X 38mm size, gum wall, slick contact patch, big chevrons on the side. I like 'em, stout and smooth.
DAS ---
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Date: Sat, 10 Jul 2004 13:17:36 EDT From: Philcycles@aol.com To: dougstephens@dougstephens.net, classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: Re: [CR]700c 38mm tires? Message-ID: <75.2dfa57c8.2e217eb0@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 13
In a message dated 7/10/04 9:43:52 AM, dougstephens@dougstephens.net writes:
>Ritchey Tom Slicks come in a 700c X 38mm size, gum wall, slick contact
>
>patck "n roach, big chevrons on the side. I like 'em, stout and smooth.
>
>
Gruce Gordon's Rock 'n Roads work out to about a 43mm section and work very
well on the road.
Phil Brown
San Rafael,alif.
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End of Classicrendezvous Digest, Vol 19, Issue 24 *************************************************
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