I am not so sure that Hirose or Toei are really getting the better of the finest Herse bikes on the framebuilding details. From about 1948 through about 1954 there were some Herse frames that are right on the money with respect to framebuilding details. Crisp lug definition, near perfect brazing, and all done with sometimes handmade lugs! In later periods, fanatical frame workmanship was somewhat less common. But, when Herse died and his son in law took over, the level of workmanship was generally very high.
I certainly didn't mean to ruffle anyone's feathers. You're right, there's plenty of examples of finely made Herse's but there's unfortunately enough not so well crafted ones to leave an impression. I guess that's to be expected given that Herse's were made for a long time by numerous craftspeople. What I meant by my comments about the Hirose and Toei bikes is that I've seen fewer building mistakes/blunders in their work than I've seen in the French bikes that these Japanese builders are paying homage to. This is by no means a swipe at the French. I also think the differences that I'm talking about are understandable because Hirose is a single craftsman and Toei consists of two or three people and neither marquee produces a great deal of bikes annually. Sort of like comparing your lovely Weigle to the French counterparts that obviously influenced Peter's work on this bike.
Curt Goodrich
Minneapolis, MN