I speak because I know Ken Sanford. A few weeks ago, we rode together for maybe 30 hours -- in the front of a van packed with bikes, from DC to RAGBRAI in Iowa, and back. I've also done many rides with him, and enjoyed his hospitality. I've ridden every weekday this week on a Raleigh Competition I got from him in trade (now a fixed gear commuter).
Ken spent decades doing really hard work trying to understand folks who really want to harm the US, and has some pretty strong opinions. I might or might not agree, but I understand where he comes from.
In this case, Ken violated list rules, as Ted did earlier and later. It is not my place to apologize for either gentleman.
But, I do find Sanford to be a good man, worthy of my trust, respect, and friendship. I assume that Baer is, too.
Thanks, and let's get back to play.
harvey sachs mcLean va
Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 14:48:42 -0700 (PDT) From: "Ted E. Baer" <wickedsky@sbcglobal.net> To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: Message-ID: <20040819214842.65205.qmail@web80602.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 2
Today I gave my opinion as to why the vintage bike parts market has fallen through the floor.
Basically, when the world is at war or when times are unsteady, buyers are reluctant to buy because they don't know what the future holds.
While 90% of the people who wrote to me off list said that they DID agree with what I wrote, they also said it does not belong on the list. If it is a list rule that politics is not to be discussed on the list than so be it. I know for a fact that according to the webmaster "an attack on one is an attack on all" for offlist mail. KEN SANFORD sent me the following email:
<Ted
an off-list comment...
with all due respect: GO TO HELL!
I did not join this list to endure political rants from you or anyone else. I think you owe the list an apology.
You probably don't care for my politics and that is your right but I do NOT inflict them on the list.
Ken Sanford Kensington, MD>
First of all Ken, you can go f**k yourself!!!! Secondly I don't owe anyone sh*t!!!!
Theodore's final post to this list!
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Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 18:01:10 EDT From: OROBOYZ@aol.com To: wickedsky@sbcglobal.net, classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: [CR]Re: Political buffeting on the CR list.. Message-ID: <1ee.28491322.2e567d26@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 3
Well, I must say I think that Ted, you were asking for it and shouldn't be surprised that your comments elicited a strong response. I would have thought something would have clicked in your mind before you sent that message out! It's called restraint and good judgment. I am always amazed when e-mail senders don't think before they push the send button, but it happens too often. Yes, you are correct and " ...it is a list rule that politics is not to be discussed on the list " and " according to the webmaster 'an attack on one is an attack on all' for offlist mail." So you broke a rule (one which is designed to protect us all from puffy political posturing) and someone attacked you for it, which is against the rules. Looks like classic cause-and-effect to me! Now, can we all agree on the wisdom of controlling ourselves and limiting our messages to On-topic only?
Thanks
Dale