Roman: Among the many aspects confounding me is the discrepency between the theoretical intersection of seat stay and chain stay and where the chain stay is secured (brazed, welded whatever is the proper term) to the drop-out. Does the stay flex to the distance of the theoretical intersection or to the attaching point on the drop-out? Regards, Richard Cielec Chicago, Illinois
roman stankus <rstankus@mindspring.com> wrote: Richard,
I can't say with authority that all do that absolutely, but that's my experience from reading the framebuilder's list over the past year and other framebuider's info. It makes sense to do it that way from a geometry standpoint if you're designing a frame.
Roman
> Roman:
> Thanks.
> A little follow-up -
>
> intersection of the DS/SS / 415mm is as short - Is this how these
builders are measuring?
>
> Is DS/SS the industry standard?
>
> Regards,
>
> Richard Cielec
> Chicago, Illinois
>
>
>
> roman stankus wrote:
> Richard,
>
> The intersection of the DS/SS is a reasonable place to measure to - given
> the weird geometry of a rear dropout slot. Its just a way to measure the
> thing - you can put your wheel anywhere you want. Its not a conflict as
far
> as I can see. Yes - your measured CS length may be longer than your
> dimension to the center of your wheel. On my early 80's Colnago, I pulled
> out the adjusting screws so I could pull the wheel all the way back to
> increase the wheelbase length to the max possible because the bike rides
> better that way for me when I ride it on the rollers. (Puts the front
wheel
> over the front drum). I think super short CS's were/are a bad fad. Most of
> the framebuilders with lots of experience(not me) say 415mm is as short as
> they would go typically for several functional reasons.
>
> Roman Stankus
> Atlanta, Ga
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "r cielec"
> To:
> Sent: Sunday, August 08, 2004 10:42 PM
> Subject: Re: [CR]Re: measuring stay lengths
>
>
> > Greg:
> > This chain stay length discussion echoes an inquiry I made months ago on
> where to properly positon the rear axle.
> > On my bikes, measuring imaginary intersection of seat and chain stays
> places axle nearly full back into drop-out effectively rendering most of
the
> drop-out a waste of metal. And, questioning the purpose of an adjuster
> longer than merely several mm's.
> >
> > I'm hoping some of the frame builders will comment on this.
> >
> > I remain puzzled on both counts.
> >
> > Richard Cielec
> > Chicago, Illinois
> >
> > gpvb1@comcast.net wrote:
> > Well, you measure it as it would be measured on a drawing, which is what
> it was made from. No need to over-think this.
> > The only thing that isn't measured center-to-center is the seat tube
> length (when describing a frame) (sometimes).
> > Think line drawings - where do the tubes' centerlines intersect, and
where
> is the center line of things like the axles? Measure to those points.
> > Greg Parker
> > Ann Arbor, MI
> >
> > Date: Sat, 7 Aug 2004 08:27:01 -0500
> > From: "Douglas Morrell"
> > To:
> > Subject: re:[CR] When did Raleigh International geometry change?
> >
> > R Cielec wrote:
> >
> > "So, how does one measure stay length?
> >
> > To my uneducated point of view, I don't know what the precise end points
> would be. For example, on the drop-out end, there's: the depth of the slot
> in the stay for the drop-out; the tip stay."
> >
> > To which Doug replied:
> >
> > I don't know the precise answer to that in frame builder's jargon, but
> > for the purposes of comparison I think all we need is consistency in
> > process. I would propose center of BB spindle to rear-most point of drop
> > out slot as a measure of "effective" chainstay length.
> >
> > On my 23.5" International it is 17 5/8", or using 2.54 cm to inch
> > conversion, 44.77cm. I would consider it "long" as I have plenty of room
> > to mount a frame pump on the backside of the seat tube and still easily
> > install the rear wheel.
> >
> > Doug Morrell
> >
> > St Louis MO
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> >
> >
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