While I am certain that some list-lurkers may find the discussion of chainstay length running long (by a few cm's?), if not tedious, it has been most educational. I worry that some may want it removed to the framebuilders' forum, but I say to them, it's okay by me, I like learning this stuff; I had no idea there could be so many perspectives and so would ask if you could now discuss (succinctly, of course) fork trail vs. head angles and the proper measurement thereof. Thank you to all participating. -To rip from the old Firesign Theatre boys, "Everything I know is wrong!" Ricardo Bulissimo, Verdi, Nevada.