Re:[CR]69/70 white Raleigh Pro on ebay -

Date: Sun, 12 Sep 2004 18:06:02 -0400 From: Larry Osborn <losborn2@wvu.edu> To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: Re: [CR]69/70 white Raleigh Pro on ebay -

At 08:36 PM 9/12/2004 +0000, you wrote:
>That looks more like an early Competition frame to me. The Comp had Zeus dropouts at one point, but IIRC the Pro never did. Anyone know otherwise?
>Greg "1969 brown Pro" Parker
>Ann Arbor, Michigan
>

Hi Greg Yes. I've seen both Zeus and Campy drops on the early white Raleigh Pros, and many other little variations on the whole theme. We are talking about Raleigh here. While the phrase "All specifications subject to change without notice" serves as disclaimer for manufacturers, it was almost a mantra for Raleigh.. The white version of the Pro came a year before the brown ones w/Campy brakes. It appears in the 69 US catalog (see Retro-Raleighs), but "specifications" in that catalog are almost totally lacking in detail. And while my ignorance is vast on most topics, I know waaaaay too much about the white Pros.

I've never seen anything else painted to impersonate a white Raleigh Pro. Might have missed that if it happened, but don't think there are enough people around who even know (or care) that the white Pros exist for there to be any benefit gained by dressing something else up as one. As attached as I am to these old heaps, even I have to admit that it's not the most attractive paint scheme out there. And too many colors to make duplication a simple task. I have however, seen at least 5 or 6 previously white Pros painted to impersonate later blue ones. There certainly is something to be gained by making a white one look like a "newer" and more attractive and desireable blue/gray one. I think Raleigh was even responsible for one or two that I've seen that were very accurrate. At least that was the story one seller volunteered, before I even asked if it was a repaint. Back in the happy times, long before vintage bikes became desireable, expensive, and long before ebay.

Just to beat the topic to death, the most recent example: A lot of confused discussion on ebay recently about a "blue" pro for sale. Pictures are still up. http://ebay.com/<blah> d=1&ssPageName=WDVW Some very entertaining misinformation contributed by all the participants. Each person seemed to focus on just a single detail in an attempt to date it. Nobody saw the whole bike. Wrap around seat stays, wrong period Raleigh and Reynolds decals, Heron headbadge crudely attached with aluminum rivets (not original brass rivets. Pop-rivets? Oval Raleigh badge probably replaced to match the blue paint.), sloping crown, sidepull brakes installed but there is still a brake cable stop arch across stays for the original center pull brakes, Prugnat style head lugs, no chrome. Heck it wasn't even a good attempt at an accurrate blue/gray paint job. That should have been the biggest tip-off for people. With the low "E" serial number, it almost has to be a white one in disguise, and not a good job of disguising it. I don't think anybody ever figured it out. I didn't recognize any of the bidders, and I didn't have time to get involved. I really should save those pictures.......

The devil is in the details. Larry "Grissom" Osborn CSI Morgantown WV

So when did the Pros switch from centerpull to sidepull brakes? And what year is my F1668 (brown/mink) Mk II Pro from? 1969? 1970? 1971? It has a Brampton seat cluster, chrome, and Campy sidepulls. Greg Parker Ann Arbor, Michigan