Re: [CR]Sturmey axles, was Looking for Hilary Stone.

(Example: Framebuilders:Alberto Masi)

From: "ternst" <ternst1@cox.net>
To: "HM & SS Sachs" <sachs@erols.com>, <johnspeare@gmail.com>, <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
References: <41EDC429.2010903@erols.com>
Subject: Re: [CR]Sturmey axles, was Looking for Hilary Stone.
Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2005 22:15:26 -0800
reply-type=response

Hello all: If we go back a little further, maybe some of you will recall that we regularly converted 3-SP bikes to 6, 9, 12, and then some guys went all out and put multiple front chainwheels on , too. This was in late '50's and '60's. A lot of guys started racing on stuff like that but because the Sturmey stuff was made for regular touring and transportation the guys quickly tore the gears apart and went to the derailleur systems pdq. There were many axles in the6-3/4 and longer being made aftermarket and that's what you need to do the job. HH is correct, build up the inside dropout width, then fasten the outside and home free. The reason so many axles were bent is that too many frame dropouts weren't aligned properly and when tightened down, the axle bent, and eventually could crack, as they were quite brittle, Maybe that's why the outside nuts were so soft, so if they stripped the axle often was undamaged. SA used washers with oval / flat holes to match the axle. The washers also had tabs that matched the dropout slot and went towards the inside along the dropout slot to secure and keep the axle from twisting. I have some of this SA stuff, some two, maybe a three speed spline cluster that slides onto the three spline driver. Don't know if I have any fixed screw on clusters anymore. The clusters are probably English Cyclo. If any one is interested in any of this nice old Engish equipment, let me know offlist, I'll look see and advise. Ted Ernst Palos Verdes Estates, CA


----- Original Message -----
From: HM & SS Sachs
To: johnspeare@gmail.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2005 6:21 PM
Subject: [CR]Sturmey axles, was Looking for Hilary Stone.



> John Speare wrote:
> Hi, I have been told that Hillary Stone watches this list and I am looking
> for him about fitting a Sturmey-Archer hub onto a bike with 130mm
> dropouts. If anyone else on this list has advice, I'll take it. Here's the
> post that I sent to the iBOB list: >From my measurements, the hub has an
> axle length (measured from where the bolts that screw onto the hub itself)
> of 110 mm. My frame however, has rear spacing of 130mm. Although I can put
> 3 mm spacers on each side and still muscle the hub onto the bike, the
> effective length is only 116 then. I'm a big guy and I don't want to
> muscle the hub on by "cold setting" the frame 14mm.
> <snip>
> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> 6-1/4" axles were available for the common AW and FW 3- and 4-speed hubs.
> 6-1/4=158 mm is long enough. I'd ask some other questions before going
> ahead, though.
>
> Please, remember that the Sturmey axles are not simple bending structures.
> They're not only bored through, but flatted at the ends (thinner vertical
> than horizontal), and have long cut-outs near the center. Using the
> longer axle with spacers outboard just moves the bearings inboard. If
> this were my project, I would use an extra nut outboard of the spacers but
> inside the drop-out, to preload the washers and convert those parts, at
> least, into a larger diameter and thus much stiffer axle. (On a QR axle
> set, the skewer is a tension member that has the same effect as I'm
> proposing, but on an S/A the hollow innards are just space for the
> controls, and can't help stiffen the axle).
>
> At my weight (about #190), I worry about these things. But, I'm not a
> materials or structures guy, and am telling you about my instincts, not
> doing an engineering analysis. I do remember a lot of bent flatted-end
> axles on 10-speed Raleighs we raced at Rice in the early 60s. I guess
> Raleigh flatted the axle ends on the early Gran Prix and Super Course (?)
> because they sold the same frames with Sturmeys, or just out of cussed
> habit, but I had friends who whipped out Chrome Moly versions at the
> school shop instead of filing open the slot a silly mm or two.
>
> your mileage may vary.

>

> harvey sachs

> mcLean va