I had the good fortune to order bikes from Francisco. He made me one of the stoutest road frames I've ever had in 1982. It had his X braced steerer, his carefully filed top tube cable guides and careful attention to every detail except one. When I tried to install the fron brake I found he'd forgotten to drill the X brace he'd braxed into the crown. Whoops! One of my customers still rides a Cuevas TT bike with brazed on campy brake posts and a single downtube shifter boss. He was a great builder.
Paul Brown Cycle Dynamcs, Santa Rosa Ca
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: Shoes and Cleats (Phil Sieg) 2. custom-built masi serial number question -- follow-up (galen pewtherer) 3. Re: Shoes and Cleats (Morgan Fletcher) 4. Re: Bar end cable routing 5. Re: So you want to learn to build a frame? (Eric in SF) 6. Re: re: straw-man argument (100% off-topic but it was integral to the start of a thread, so...) (Joe Starck) 7. Bicycletest.com Press Coverage of NAHBS (framebuilder show) (richardsachs@juno.com) 8. Re: re: straw-man argument (100% off-topic but it was integral to the start of a thread, so...) (Joe Starck) 9. Francesco Cuevas passes away 10. Bar end cable routing 11. SF Bay Craigslist - Free Frame with Heart Cut-outs (David Allen) 12. kiwiwayne current wants list...... (Wayne Davidson) 13. RE: RE: NOW: My beloved file marks. WAS: Your CR Post (Steven Willis) 14. re Shoes and Cleats (Steve Kurt) 15. Four more sets of Leather Bar Wrap available...black and brown only (Tom Sanders) 16. Giving up a Woodrup Giro Touring...to Build a racer. (mark shells)
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Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2005 11:05:24 -0500 From: Phil Sieg To: rrt2003@juno.com Cc: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: Re: [CR]Shoes and Cleats Message-ID: <41FBB444.8070102@comcast.net> In-Reply-To: <20050128.203236.1020.0.rrt2003@juno.com> References: <20050128.203236.1020.0.rrt2003@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: list Message: 1
rrt2003@juno.com wrote:
>Are there any classic shoes and cleats still available from any
>manufacturer? If not, does anybody have any good improvisations?
>D. Walter
>Tucson, AZ
>_______________________________________________
>
>
>
Well, third on this but I also recommend the Carnac Carlits. I have a
pair (ordered from Deeside Cycles). Very comfortable, I can wear these
with cycling socks or light general athletic socks. Classic looks and
works great with platform pedals and toe clips. Inexpensive (around £50
IIRC) but not cheaply made. Only come in black, thankfully, and none of
the Electric Kool-Aid Acid Test variants that are popular today.
-- Phil Sieg Knoxville, Tennessee ------------------------------
Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2005 07:38:36 -0800 From: galen pewtherer To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: [CR]custom-built masi serial number question -- follow-up Message-ID: <852b38f0501290738658690d9@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Reply-To: galen pewtherer Message: 2
(original post can be found here
http://search.bikelist.org/
many thanks to the folks who reponded off-list, especially Bob Hovey. here's a synopsis of what i've found out:
built in 1994, most likely by billato (the lugs are not pinned, which seems to indicate that it wasn't built by mondonico, according to bob), and marketed by torelli. (could it be a torelli pista speciale with masi decals? i couldn't find any pics of that bike).
questions still remaining: what's up with the decals? they seem to be applied crookedly, but they have a clearcoat over them, as does the original owners name. was there ever a gran corsa track frame? what's it made out of? (i couldn't feel any rifling, so it's probably not slx). is it really a custom frame, or did the buyer just pay a little extra to get his name painted on the top tube?
thanks again for all your help, -- galen pewtherer san francisco, ca ------------------------------
Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2005 07:45:06 -0800 From: Morgan Fletcher To: Classic Rendezvous Subject: Re: [CR]Shoes and Cleats Message-ID: <1107013506.4364.97.camel@localhost> In-Reply-To: <12f.55a62ffc.2f2d064f@aol.com> References: <12f.55a62ffc.2f2d064f@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 3
Maybe it's because I have big feet, (47 or 48) but I've found used Detto Pietros, NOS Duegis and even a pair of NOS Adidas Eddy Merckx shoes on ebay. (Thanks Hillary for that last pair.)
Tried all the local shops, first. No one had any in stock, in my size. The Bike Nook and I think American Cyclery - both in San Francisco - had some in other sizes.
There's a lister in Germany I believe, who posted about getting a custom set made for not too much money. You might want to check the archives for his post. I tried getting a set of Carnacs, but the model I was looking for (Forclaz if I remember right) wasn't made in my size.
Bigfoot -- Morgan Fletcher, morgan@hahaha.org Oakland, CA
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2005 10:34:35 EST From: Philcycles@aol.com To: Rwo56@aol.com, classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: Re: [CR]Bar end cable routing Message-ID: <88.1f37eb6e.2f2d070b@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 4
In a message dated 1/29/05 6:48:45 AM, Rwo56@aol.com writes:
<< The shifter cable is stiffer and harder to bend, and was hard to tape down. >>
Use electrical tape to shape it to the bars before the final tape. Phil Brown San rafael, ------------------------------
Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2005 11:36:55 -0500 (EST) From: "Eric in SF" To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: [CR]Re: So you want to learn to build a frame? Message-ID: <20050129163655.3B9633E06@xprdmailfe11.nwk.excite.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Reply-To: ericinsf@excite.com Message: 5
Hi All,
Koichi Yamaguchi builds wonderful steel bikes and shares his framebuilding skills much like Akio Tanabe. Right there in liability-prone Colorado. Click here for more info:
http://www.yamaguchibike.com/
Best regards, Eric Anschutz San Francisco, CA
_______________________________________________ Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com The most personalized portal on the Web! ------------------------------
Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2005 08:43:17 -0800 (PST)
From: Joe Starck
To: "C. Andrews"
Cc: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
Subject: Re: [CR]re: straw-man argument (100% off-topic but it was integral
to the start of a thread, so...)
Message-ID: <20050129164317.3835.qmail@web42005.mail.yahoo.com>
In-Reply-To: <004e01c50564$427c7b90$6401a8c0@oemcomputer>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
MIME-Version: 1.0
Precedence: list
Message: 6
> I posted Joe privately on this matter, but since he
> posted
> the list as well, I wanted
> to post these links for others to see. The usual
> definition
> of a straw-man argument
> is as I described it: refuting an argument that was
> never
> made, or refuting a highly
> distorted version of an argument.
Charles, I swear to God, The Devil and Albert Eisentraut that I did not know your message was private. That's no excuse though, I should have looked. I stand corrected (or should I say "I sit in the corner corrected?") on "strawman." I'm not happy about it though, 'cause I like that name for the process I described in an earlier post. "Strawman" wasn't in my 20-year old Logic textbook.(Maybe Logic 2 covers it.) I'm curious as to when the name was applied to what you rightly described as commonplace discourse in politics. During two years in Journalism School, and then for several years afterward, I read two newspapers daily, one left-leaning, and one right-leaning; it gave me a good grasp of the skewing going on from both sides. I didn't know I was deciphering "strawmen." I have been a registered Independent since then though! Thanks for the info from the sites you and Chuck Schmidt provided. I don't think that this "strawman" thing merits inclusion as a formal fallacy thouugh. In one of the examples from Chuck, the "strawman" is created by reducing the theory of evolution to a characature, and then from there begins the attack. But in the first step, in order to reduce the theory's complexity to oversimplicity, one would have to commit a number of fallacies before event beginning to attack the strawman created. I mean, it's a loaded-up process of extreme falsehood and disingenuity, so it seems to me that "strawman" is a fallacious process -- not a single fallacy. And maybe it's not in my textbook because this kind of behavior is of less interest to the study of logic and of more interest to the study of ethics!
On another note, there really can be an argumentative process as I described in an earlier post, in which I rightly or wrongly called it "strawman." The difference though, is that in creating this kind of "strawman," one doesn't skew or distort an opponent's position; there's none of this kind of lying. For example, let's say back in the days when it was believed Earth was flat, you decide to argue that it's round. So you publicise a presentation, "How to keep from falling off the edges of Earth." (You're already beginning the construction of your strawman.) So everybody shows up and you first lay out statements supporting flatness, but you do so in such a manner so that you can use these same statements to support your argument that Earth is round. And so, you create a strawman from these statements of flat theory that the tough audience is comfortable with, and then gradually blow these straws away in a proof that Earth is round.
(The reward for successfull persuasion here is progress. But if at the end of your presentation the people ask, "Yeah, but how do we keep from falling off?", you're pretty much left to reply, "Believe Earth is round." And then you'd get tarred and feathered and ran outta town, sorta like I'll probably get ran outta CR-land for this post.)
I guess I'll drop "strawman" for my process though. Thanks for the 'learnin Chuck y Chuck.
In The Gospels, Pilate said to Jesus, "Are you King of the Jews?" Jesus replied, "The words are yours." Jesus shoulda added, "And quit trying to pull that strawman crap on me!"
Joe Starck, masidon, wi
__________________________________
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Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2005 16:43:57 GMT From: "richardsachs@juno.com" To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: [CR]Bicycletest.com Press Coverage of NAHBS (framebuilder show) Message-ID: <20050129.084443.16333.13317@webmail06.nyc.untd.com> Content-Type: text/plain MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 7
hey classicists...
nice online coverage (at Bicycletest.com)
of the recent framebuilder luv-a-thon in houston
appears here:
http://www.bicycletest.com/
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2005 08:56:18 -0800 (PST)
From: Joe Starck
To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
Cc: "C. Andrews"
Subject: Re: [CR]re: straw-man argument (100% off-topic but it was integral
to the start of a thread, so...)
Message-ID: <20050129165618.41021.qmail@web42006.mail.yahoo.com>
In-Reply-To: <004e01c50564$427c7b90$6401a8c0@oemcomputer>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
MIME-Version: 1.0
Precedence: list
Message: 8
> I posted Joe privately on this matter, but since he
> posted
> the list as well, I wanted
> to post these links for others to see. The usual
> definition
> of a straw-man argument
> is as I described it: refuting an argument that was
> never
> made, or refuting a highly
> distorted version of an argument.
Charles, I swear to God, The Devil and Albert Eisentraut that I did not know your message was private. That's no excuse though, I should have looked. I stand corrected (or should I say "I sit in the corner corrected?") on "strawman." I'm not happy about it though, 'cause I like that name for the process I described. "Strawman" wasn't in my Logic textbook.(Maybe Logic 2 covers it.) I'm curious as to when the name was applied to what you rightly described as commonplace discourse in politics. During two years in Journalism School, and then for several years afterward, I read two newspapers daily, one left-leaning, and one right-leaning; it gave me a good grasp of the skewing going on from both sides. I didn't know I was deciphering "strawmen." I have been a registered Independent since then though! Thanks for the info from the sites you and Chuck Schmidt provided. I don't think that this "strawman" thing merits inclusion as a formal fallacy thouugh. In one of the examples from Chuck, the "strawman" is created by reducing the theory of evolution to a characature, and then from there begins the attack. But in the first step, in order to reduce the theory's complexity to oversimplicity, one would have to commit a number of fallacies before event beginning to attack the strawman created. I mean, it's a loaded-up process of extreme falsehood and disingenuity, so it seems to me that "strawman" is more a fallacious process and not a single fallacy. And maybe it's not in my textbook because this kind of behavior is of less interest to the study of logic and of more interest to the study of ethics! On another note, there really can be an argumentative process as I described in an earlier post, in which I rightly or wrongly called it "strawman." The difference though, is that in creating this kind of "strawman," one doesn't skew or distort an opponent's position; there's none of this kind of lying. For example, let's say back in the days when it was believed Earth was flat, you decide to argue that it's round. So you publicise a presentation, "How to keep from falling off the edges of Earth." (You're already beginning the construction of your strawman.) So everybody shows up and you first lay out statements supporting flatness, but you do so in such a manner so that you can use these same statements to support your argument that Earth is round. And so, you create a strawman from these statements of flat theory that the tough audience is comfortable with, and then gradually blow these straws away in a proof that Earth is round. (The reward for successfull persuasion here is progress. But if at the end of your presentation the people ask, "Yeah, but how do we keep from falling off?", you're pretty much left to reply, "Believe Earth is round." And then you get tarred and feathered and ran outta town, sorta like I'll probably get ran outta CR-land for this post.) I guess I'll drop "strawman" for my process though. Thanks for the 'learnin Chuck y Chuck.
In The Gospels, Pilate said to Jesus, "Are you King of the Jews?" Jesus replied, "The words are yours." Jesus should have added, "And quit trying to pull that strawman crap on me!"
Joe Starck, masidon, wi
__________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------
Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2005 12:29:29 EST From: OROBOYZ@aol.com To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: [CR]Francesco Cuevas passes away Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 9
Francesco Cuevas died on Friday, Jan 28, 2005, at the age of 89 in his native Spain.........
Dale Brown Greensboro, North Carolina
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2005 12:30:54 EST From: Hughethornton@aol.com To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: [CR]Bar end cable routing Message-ID: <55.6bb2da9e.2f2d224e@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 10
Most of the respondents on this topic route their bar end shifter cables up to the bar tops, exiting at or near the end of the bar tape. When I tried this many years ago, I found the friction excessive and I resorted to bringing the cables straight out at the front of the drops and looping them round to the downtube stops. After this length of time, I cannot remember what cable outer I used, nor how much grease I used (if any!).
I now plan to give bar end shifters another go with Campagnolo Gran Sport gears and the original Campagnolo stainless steel outer casing. I would like to run the cable up to the bar tops. Does any body have any successful experience using this set-up -- does it work well? and are there any points to watch so that I get it right first time and don't end up taping and untaping the bars several times? Would I be better off using another type of cable outer?
Hugh Thornton Cheshire, England
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2005 12:35:06 EST From: Mercurys43@aol.com To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: [CR]SF Bay Craigslist - Free Frame with Heart Cut-outs (David Allen) Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 11
Listers and Listees,
There is a person who is trying to give a frame away on the SF Bay Craigslist site. He claims that the wheels and tires on the bike are shot but the guy at REI told him the frame was still great. The frame was described as having lots of cut-outs with hearts. Hmmmm. Anyone?
David Allen Marietta, Georgia
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2005 06:45:08 +1300 From: Wayne Davidson To: CR List Subject: [CR]kiwiwayne current wants list...... Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 12
Hi all, if able to help contact me direct, would prefer to trade from my large list of parts. A couple of items are of the timeline, but most are within.....regards wayne davidson invercxargill NZ.........
>>WAYNE'S WANTS LIST>>.
Would like items NOS, but if unable in VG/EX condition,
LMK if you are able to supply a jpg.
>>BOOK/MAGS/BROCHURES ETC.
Anything on Galli and Rigi, photocopies OK.
Healing 12 speed brochure
Morrison Monarch brochure
>>BOTTOM BRACKET.
Campagnolo SR fixing nuts #7161104 x2.
Campagnolo washers #749 x2.
>>BOTTOM BRACKET CUP.
Campagnolo Super Record ENG thread fixed cup NOS please.
>>BRAKE PARTS.
Suntour Superbe pro brakeshoe/holders/guides enough for 2 brakes NOS only
please.
Campagnolo Chorus cable adjusters. a pair required in nice condition.
>>BRAKE LEVER PARTS.
Galli hoods NOS pr only please.
Campagnolo Power grade C record white hood. NOS only please.
>>CHAINRING.
Campagnolo C Record 39-43T inner.
>>CRANKARM LH ONLY.
Galli Criterium strada 170mm #03020002. NOS ONLY PLEASE.
2 Galli alloy dust covers #03020008.
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