Re: [CR]70's? Libertas

(Example: Bike Shops)

Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys
Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2005 06:48:14 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Thomas Adams" <thomasthomasa@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [CR]70's? Libertas
To: rallydeath <fourrings3@gmail.com>, classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
In-Reply-To: 6667


Dear Brad:

Welcome to the fun world of vintage road bikes. There are folks with much more knowledge than I have regarding Belgian Bikes, but I'll take a stab at answering some of the questions.

Libertas was like most of the bigger Euro companies, they made many levels of bikes from simple gas piped beaters to refined racing and touring machines. Some obvious clues to higher end bikes include Reynolds or Columbus tubing (presence indicated by a frame sticker), seamless tubing (most easily checked in the seat tube with the seatpost pulled), 27.2 or 27.0 sized seatpost (only the better tubing can be drawn this thin, assuming it's English sized tubing, not the French style Metric that takes a 26.4 post), nicely finished lug work, Campagnolo (or other brand name) forged rear drop outs with built in derailleur hangers, and nice parts (assuming the parts are original). I believe Libertas mainly used Reynolds 531 tubing on their better bikes, so the best indication of a top end bike would be a Reynolds sticker indicating double butted tubes, stays and forks. Second best is the Campy rear drop out. Third is seamless tubing and a 27.2 seatpost. If it has none of these, and it's seamed tubing, then it's probably a mid range bike, but don't despise these: they're often splendid riding machines.

As far as dating the bike, the best bet would be the date code on the hub cones. Campy put a year code on the cones, so a partial dissasembly of one the hubs would at least indicate when the hubs were made, and assuming they were the original equipment, the frame can be no older than the hubs. But it might be a few years younger, as there were instances of factories buying lots of hubs, and using them over a period of years.

You say the frame is six speed: is this a full width six speed freewheel, or one of Suntour's Ultra Six compact freewheels, for putting six sprockets in the space for five? What I'm after is the rear frame spacing. If 126 for a full width six speed, the bike probably has to be from the late 70's, as the switch from 120 to 126mm generally happened around 1976-77. This is full of exceptions, of course, as the Raliegh Pro was spaced 126 by 1971 or 72 or so. Also, it is a very common modification for a 120 mm frame to be bent/spread to 126 to take the extra rear cog. So don't draw any absolute conclusions from this.

The Avocet post is almost certainly an aftermarket substitution as I've never heard of them being used as a factory fitted piece. Is this the one with the two small allen bolts adjusted from underneath? Beware, I've had folks tell me these bolts are somewhat fragile. It is a lovely post, though.

Are the wheels clincers or tubulars? If tubulars (and again assuming they are original) then this probably at least a mid level quality bike.

Bar/stem would normally be Cinelli for the "best" quality, with any other high end parts being appropriate, like TTT, Ambrosio, Fiamme, GB, Phillipe, etc etc. If you want something modern but with a nice looking vintage bend, the Nitto bars are fine. Rivendell has them with a lovely engraved crest, and Harris Cyclery has the block printed "Nitto" old style graphics.

Assuming the hubs and saddle are in good shape, either of them are worth at least three times what you paid for the bike. Nice work, and I hope the bike gives you lots of happy rides. You won't meet too many Libertas bikes on the road.

Tom Adams, Shrewsbury NJ

rallydeath <fourrings3@gmail.com> wrote: Hi all,

I'm new to vintage bikes, and non bmx in general. I recently bought a "Libertas" made in Belgium 12-speed bike. I need help figuring out if it's anything special, as well as it's year of inception. It has the following components which may or may not help in dating. Campy record hubs, with super champion rims. Avocet seatpost, with a old Brooks seat (writing on plaque at rear of seat is worn off), TA specialties crank and sprockets, and the last original looking part is a pivo stem.

I paid $20 for it, so probably nothing too special, just wondering. I was also wondering what pedals and bars look nice and are period appropriate since I don't want to bastardize what might be a nice vintage bike.

Any info would be great.

Cheers! Brad Kremer PDX, OR 70's? Libertas _______________________________________________

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