I'm pleased to see the response on frames and 'feel'. I think we probably all agree on about 95% of the items discussed on the CR However I only know what I've experienced and been told first hand by other rider for about 60 years.. If we agreed on everything it would be dullsville. My experience works for me and your knowledge works for you. That's good and turns the hubs of hell to heat us up once in a while. I hope you all enjoy your riding as much as I still do. That's what makes this hobby so much fun, and why I enjoy the CR so much. Ted Ernst Palos Verdes Estates, CA
<classicrendezvous@bikelist.org> Cc: "'Chuck Schmidt'" <chuckschmidt@earthlink.net> Sent: Wednesday, August 03, 2005 4:47 PM Subject: RE: [CR]Soft frames? Hard Frames?
> Dear Mike and other soft frame fans,
>
> Steel frames should not be expected to work harden unless they are
> repeatedly flexed (or stressed) nearly beyond the elastic range of the
> materials they are built from. The flex cycle life is extremely long if
> the
> metal is all kept in its elastic zone, and essentially no fatigue should
> be
> expected. At least this is what my ol' Strength of Materials prof taught!
>
> I'm glad you think it's hogwash. And if metallurgical knowledge is
> applied,
> it isn't logical. I would challenge the assumption that "frames work
> harden." If they did, there might be something here.
>
> I'll duck now and weather the flames...
>
> Ken Freeman
> Ann Arbor, MI
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: classicrendezvous-bounces@bikelist.org
> [mailto:classicrendezvous-bounces@bikelist.org] On Behalf Of
> hersefan@comcast.net
> Sent: Wednesday, August 03, 2005 6:20 PM
> To: chuckschmidt@earthlink.net; classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
> Cc: Chuck Schmidt
> Subject: Re: [CR]Soft frames? Hard Frames?
>
> If anything, as engineering friends have explained to me, frames work
> harden
> and in theory that would make them stiffer and at the same time closer to
> a
> failure.
>
> I am a proponent of the view that frames which are too stiff are easily
> confused with frames that are "too soft".
>
> According to this logic, it is possible that there is something which
> happens to frames as they get more miles under them.
>
> Despite this now logical explanation which accords with theory, I think
> its
> hogwash. I've ridden lots of frames with lots of miles, and I sure can't
> find anything resembling evidence that ride changes with miles.
>
> What I do know is that riders perceptions of ride does change. Ride a
> different bike for awhile and come back to your old bike - it often feels
> different since your timing has changed.
>
> Its not the bike that changes - its the rider. I'm sticking with it
> despite
> my explaination for the myth. But since I'm an economist I can explain
> many
> things with numbers and logic. Doesn't make it right.
>
> Mike Kone in Boulder CO
>
>
>
>
>
> -------------- Original message --------------
>
>> j.mccoin@comcast.net wrote:
>> >
>> > I have seen people test the stiffness of frames for years by putting
>> > one foot
>> on a pedal in the 12 O'Clock position and pushing on it. I have tried
>> to explain that all they are seeing is how much air is in their tires.
>> >
>> > There are still a lot myths and foolishness in our hobby, I think
>> > the one
>> about frames going soft is one of the silliest, Chucks description a
>> few years ago, of a pile of discarded Merckx's frames rusting away in
>> a field because they had gone soft, was quite a parody of this
> foolishness.
>> >
>> > Jim McCoin
>> > Fremont Ca.
>>
>>
>> ======================================================================
>> == Ah yessss... I remember a trip to sunny Italy in the seventies and
>> a highly anticipated visit to Molteni Arcore. Out behind the warehouse
>> that housed the team bike spares, etc. (you should have seen the
>> shelves of wool jerseys with one entire shelf of Molteni jerseys with
>> the worlds bands on the collar and sleeves reserved for Eddy
>> himself)... anyway out behind the warehouse was this field of waist
>> high weeds, and in the middle of this field was a big soggy mound of
>> all these orange painted bike frames, the steel tubes of which were
>> reduced to so much limp pasta by the herculean efforts of Eddy and his
>> domestics in the previous season's races.
>>
>> Chuck "huh?" Schmidt
>> SoPas, SoCal
>> ======================================================================
>> ==
>>
>> "...fishing the past, from the disposal, wiping it off, painting over
>> the ugly parts and recycling it for more than it's worth."
>> --Kurt Vonnegut
>>
>> Chuck Schmidt
>> South Pasadena, Southern California
>>
>> .