Bruce Gordon's post says a bunch. While we collectors and admirers of KOF frames discuss and take part in the secondary market--i.e. the buying and selling of used frames--the original person who built said frame makes nothing more from it, despite the number of times it sells or for how much. And, because we are so anal about knowing precisely when the frame was made, the specifications, and all the other details we can wring out of the framebuilder, we bombard the builder with requests for detailed information, all of which require his time, free I might add, to pull out the build sheets, type a response and refile the documents. But, when we finally save enough money to actually buy a custom frame, do we go to the guy who has unselfishly devoted his time to us as a group all these years, or, do we go to the latest person who is carving fancy lugs, offering frames at $500 less, and who never even contributes to the list? It takes a special person to put up with us and my hat is off to you framebuilders who have so graciously answered our many questions, asking nothing in return but to be part of the 'group'. It isn't just $500 to attend special events, although that was a wonderful gift from whoever the anonymous doner was. How many framebuilders have medical insurance and get a regular medical exam? How many have a 401K or IRA or pension plan? I'm guilty. I encourage people to buy used bikes--it is economical and a great way to participate in a hobby that would perhaps, otherwise be impossible. I try to do little things, pick up a dinner or lunch tab, buy some neat little doodad the framebuilder is selling. Buying one new frame every 20 years doesn't a patron make, so I'm not a patron of the arts as Bruce mentioned in his email. . Buying a single new frame per year would probably give me more enjoyment than processing the dozens of used ones that currently go through my hands during the same tim eframe. I may actually change my ways. Now, who do I go to first? Do I follow my heart or my checkbook..............Thanks Bruce, great post. Lou Deeter, Orlando FL