Yep, the binder bolt area looks solid (no open space), so it must be investment cast. BB shell is a Gargatte I believe ("+GF+" markings), fork crown looks to be maybe IC too? Who cast the lugs? Microfusione?
Thanks,
Greg "upon closer inspection..." Parker Dexter, Michigan
> Greg,
\r?\n>
\r?\n> I think all Medici Pro Strada frames had IC lugs. You >can tell by looking at the seat lug binder area. The IC lugs >have a large cast binder bolt area; the only thing I think is >not really graceful about that Mario design. If the lugs >were pressed they would have a "normal" type seat >binder area like on any typical pressed lug.
\r?\n>
\r?\n> Brian Baylis
\r?\n> La Mesa, CA
\r?\n>
\r?\n>
\r?\n>
\r?\n> -- gpvb1@comcast.net wrote:
\r?\n> RBB:
\r?\n> Can you tell us about when Medici began using the IC lugs? Would my early Pro Strada have them or not? I can't tell for sure just from looking at them....
\r?\n> Greg Parker
\r?\n> Dexter, Michigan
\r?\n>
\r?\n> Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 07:34:08 GMT
\r?\n> From: "brianbaylis@juno.com"
\r?\n> To: hersefan@comcast.net
\r?\n> Cc: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
\r?\n> Subject: Re: [CR]Re: Confente Lugs and BB
\r?\n>
\r?\n> Mike and all,
\r?\n>
\r?\n> Regarding the IC lugs used by Medici and designed by Mario Confente; the owner
\r?\n> of BOTH companies, Bill Recht, was the rightful owner of the lug pattern. He
\r?\n> owned both bike companies and employed all parties at each. The lugs belonged to
\r?\n> him. I'm sure Mario knew that the money spent having the lugs cast would only be
\r?\n> cost effective if both bikes were built using the same set of lugs. The Confente
\r?\n> spade lug cutouts were done by a pantagraph engraving machine (the sharp tips
\r?\n> being finished by hand afterwards) whereas the Medici cutouts were done by hand.
\r?\n> Mario never got to use the IC lugs, his bikes were Bocama lugs modified. They
\r?\n> look like "exactly the same lugs" to the untrained eye, but they are different.
\r?\n>
\r?\n> Since Mario designed the lugs Medici used, he is responsible for the "lines that
\r?\n> just don't flow right" on the Medici lugs. Thinner filing and a better cutout
\r?\n> would have helped the look of the lugs as Medici used them; but since they were
\r?\n> IC for the purpose of eliminating the labor of shapeing the lugs you can't blame
\r?\n> Medici for the poor shape. The Confente has a more refined look because Mario
\r?\n> DID use the pressed lugs to start with and then filed them like the old days.
\r?\n> Medici was stuck using the IC lugs that were quite thick as cast. They looked
\r?\n> clunky on account of that. I actually made a frame for myself using the IC lugs
\r?\n> when I worked with Medici. I cut my traditional heart, spade, club, diamond
\r?\n> motif in the lugset and they wouldn't let me put Medici decals on the frame. I
\r?\n> filed it real nice and used my special Cinelli fork crown treatment on the fork;
\r?\n> so there is a real nice 51cm frame out there somewhere that looks sort of like a
\r?\n> mix of a Confente/Baylis/Cinelli sort of thing. May have had hand painted Baylis
\r?\n> lettering on the down tube when original. If anyone sees her anywhere, send her
\r?\n> home right away!
\r?\n>
\r?\n> The Medici wasn't supposed to have the elegance of a Confente. The Recht plan
\r?\n> was to have Mario to build the high end and custom stuff while Medici built a
\r?\n> higher volume of racing bikes about like a Masi GC of the period. They were not
\r?\n> competing with one another, they were intended to compliment the whole business
\r?\n> plan that Recht had laid out. A good number of bikes had to be built to justify
\r?\n> the cost of the cast lugs; way more than Mario could build by himself. Any idiot
\r?\n> could see that that. Somehow the Confente camp missed that critical point, which
\r?\n> apparently lead to a "misunderstanding".
\r?\n>
\r?\n> Brian Baylis
\r?\n> La Mesa, CA
\r?\n>
\r?\n>
\r?\n>
\r?\n> -- hersefan@comcast.net wrote:
\r?\n> The Medici lugs were designed by Mario and I believe were intended to be used on
\r?\n> his frames - a cast version to provide the same look of the stamped ones that
\r?\n> were more labor intensive to use. They are supposed to look the same so of
\r?\n> course they look the same. But that doesn't make them the same.
\r?\n>
\r?\n> If memory serves me correctly, Jim Cunningham argued that Confente was unaware
\r?\n> that his lug design was being "appropriated" by Medici. This was part of the
\r?\n> breakdown in friendly relations.
\r?\n>
\r?\n> Perhaps more importantly, the lugs on Medici frames don't have the elegant
\r?\n> cutouts that Confente frames feature. Also, the curves of the lugs on the
\r?\n> Medici lugs are not quite as refined - they don't flow right. A Confente frame
\r?\n> has an elegance that Medici never quite captured.
\r?\n>
\r?\n> Mike Kone in Boulder CO
\r?\n>
\r?\n> -------------- Original message --------------
\r?\n>
\r?\n> > Now I am no expert in this field, however I did own a Medici a few years ago
\r?\n> as well as staying at a Holiday Inn Express one night, and someone told me that
\r?\n> Mario had designed the lugs that were on my Medici and had used them on the
\r?\n> Confente frames. In looking at the CR website on the Confente page as well, as
\r?\n> having seen one in person, I see the exact same set of lugs that were used on
\r?\n> the Medici. If they aren't the same lugs then I must be Mario's offspring.
\r?\n> Have
\r?\n> > a look for yourself and you be the judge. In the Medici folder at
\r?\n> > http://photos.yahoo.com/
\r?\n> >
\r?\n> > Mark Poore, no Italian blood in my veins, just an Italian tube between my legs
\r?\n> > Slatyfork, WV