Re: [CR] modern KOF fillet brazed builders

(Example: Racing:Roger de Vlaeminck)

Date: Sat, 3 Dec 2005 11:41:11 -0700
From: "Doug Van Cleve" <dvancleve@gmail.com>
To: Classic Rendezvous <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
Subject: Re: [CR] modern KOF fillet brazed builders
In-Reply-To: <4391E4CA.8010709@cox.net>
References: <4391E4CA.8010709@cox.net>


>From my lurking on the framebuilder list, I gather that it is possible to fillet braze with silver but that it isn't the usual or even preferred method. It is more along the line of proving a point, that it can be done. That is my impression anyway...

Doug Van Cleve Chandler, AZ

On 12/3/05, Harvey M Sachs <sachshm@cox.net> wrote:
>
> Angel Garcia wrote:
>
> The high end Moser TK2 bikes are fillet braze construction using silver
> solder (tubeset is Deda 16.5 EOM steel).
> +++++++++++++
> I haven't pored over the brazing material specs for a couple of decades o r
> two, so this piques my curiosity: Do the Moser TK2 frames actually have
> fillets a la Jack Taylor, some Hurlow, etc?
>
> The reason I ask is that the metallurgy of the silver brazing materials
> I'm used to doesn't favor this application. They are extremely strong an d
> appropriate for filling very small gaps (<0.035", if I recall correctly),
> where the loads "look like" shear. This would describe bonding lug to tub e,
> for example. On the other hand, as the gap widened, strength decreased
> rapidly. In addition, the silver I've worked with gets very liquid just
> above the start of melting, so it is hard to build up a fillet.
>
> Brass complements this well: strong gap-filler (fork ends to tubes, for
> example), has a good viscous range for building fillet radii, etc. I alwa ys
> thought that the rational custom frame makers typically boasted of using
> silver for the lugged joints, and never claimed to use silver for fork en ds,
> seat stay eyes, etc.
>
> But, I'm just an amateur...yet to build his first full frame.

>

> harvey sachs

> mcLean va