On the other hand, just for a little perspective. let's recall that Faliero used TTT bars and stems at that point in history because they were cheaper than the Cinelli equivalents, and also (legend has it) because Cinelli wouldn't sell to him, as he was notorious for paying major suppliers "when he felt like it." Regina was likely a similar situation.
My NOS, never-altered, unridden, Verona-built 1972 Italian GC has a Cinelli bar and stem, a basic brown Everest freewheel, and a black el cheapo Sedis chain....
I think the Masisiti get a little too carried away sometimes, but that's just me and my homeys talkin.' They're just old bikes! ;-)
Greg Parker People's Republic of Ann Arbor, Michigan
Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2005 13:16:52 -0600 From: "Edward Brooks" <ebrooks@eriwine.com> To: "'C. Andrews'" <chasds@mindspring.com>, <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org> Subject: RE: [CR]what's correct on a Carlsbad Masi?
Charles, Great summation. It's these little details that make the hobby much more fun for some of us! The special components that either because they are rarer and cooler (i.e. better made and/or detailed), or because they are truer to an interpretation of what is arguably most correct for a particular machine or best expresses a perceived ideal combination of frame and components. Where someone is trying to replicate how a complete bike came from the factory there is no doubt about the appropriateness or correctness. In other instance it may just be the addition of a rare component like a Harden alloy cassette hub or bottom bracket for an old British bike. This doesn't mean that other parts won't work as well or are not period correct, just that for some of us anyway it's fun to research and endeavour to achieve results that reflect that little something extra.
Edward Robert Brooks Managing Director Edward Roberts International Auctioneers of the Fine and Rare 1262 West Winwood Drive Lake Forest, Illinois 60045 Phone- 847.295.8696 Facsimile- 847.295.8697 Email- ebrooks@eriwine.com Website- http://www.eriwine.com
-----Original Message----- From: classicrendezvous-bounces@bikelist.org [mailto:classicrendezvous-bounces@bikelist.org] On Behalf Of C. Andrews Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2005 1:28 PM To: David Patrick Cc: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: [CR]what's correct on a Carlsbad Masi?
Dave wrote, in part:
"I hate to see this mind-set where one type of component is viewed as "correct" for a bike, as rarely is this the case when we're dealing with a period when framesets were quite frequently sold as a stand-alone item and built up to the rider's wish. I've ranted before about how Martano rims are viewed by many as THE "correct" rim for 1970s Masi bikes. So, perhaps I'm stirring the pot this morning, which can be a good thing in my mind, so heap it on, my fellow CR members. What say you? "
********
Gee Dave. Seems like a lot of heat over not much... on the other hand, truth is, I've seen a handful of Carlsbad Masis (and owned a couple) as assembled at the factory, that came with the panto'd 3ttt stem and matching Masi-stamped 3ttt bars. It seems clear that, for a little while anyway, if you ordered a complete bike from Masi you could get this combination. Or maybe it was a special order...I'm sure Brian Baylis can fill us in there.
The point though, is that the panto'd stem/stamped-bar combo is super-cool, and far more interesting to see than the usual Cinelli bars-and-stem. For those of us who get pleasure from that particular coolness-factor, the Cinelli stuff is boring; the 3ttt stuff is interesting.
Whether the 3ttt stuff is "more correct" all depends on what floats your boat. I can say, for myself, given a choice between the 3ttt Masi panto'd-and-stamped stuff, or generic Cinelli, I'll take the 3ttt stuff any day. And so would most of us interested in Masis, I'm guessing.
Same goes for the winged-logo Martanos. They are, in fact, the "correct" rim if you want a bike just like one that was built at the factory. And that's the point here.
If you want a bike that was built up afterwards from a bare-frame, just about anything of the period is "correct," but not nearly so interesting.
Picture two bikes. Both starting from 1974 Carlsbad Masi frames. One is exactly as built-up at the factory (we don't know if it's *original* factory, or assembled to mimic original factory, that's not really the point here), the other has a full period Suntour cyclone group. Which bike is more charming? The "as-built-at-the-factory" bike. It's not even worth discussing. And the market handed down a verdict on this subject long ago. The "as-factory-built" bike will sell for well over 2K. The Suntour bike will, maybe, go for over a grand. Maybe.
For me, the Suntour bike isn't even worth a look. On the other hand, I could spend 10 minutes just admiring those winged-logo Martanos, and the 3ttt panto'd stem and stamped bars.
Which would you rather have? Hmm?
I thought so.
So it goes.
Charles Andrews
SoCal