Well, in that regard, I think it would be completely appropriate to ask "Would keeping the box sealed significantly increase the value of the component?", whereas asking "What is a set of NIP Record hubs in a sealed box worth?" might be a bit more at the limit of appropriateness. I don't remember exactly how the posting that started this thread was phrased.
Now, personally, I think the NIP stuff is often carried to a silly extreme, and I would never pay a premium for a sealed box, knowing that the second I opened it to verify its contents, my premium would be lost. But I know that, silly as it seems, sealed components have sometimes commanded big premiums, and to establish that that is the case seems an appropriate discussion here. Again, personally, I have little interest in NIP components, unless they can be bought for only slightly more than excellent used ones. But then I believe classic bikes should be ridden, which instantly renders NOS components no longer NOS, and of course merely taking NIP components out of the box and mounting them renders them no longer NIP.
I think Tom Sanders makes a good point that new members should feel free to ask questions and I think it is natural that learning what are reasonable prices is often a big part of what new members need to learn. I know that my idea of what prices are resonable has certainly changed drastically due to learning from the experiences of other list members. Perhaps it is up to the established members to respond to questions about specific values in a tactful way. That is, if expressing a strong opinion about "X are a dime a dozen" or "Y is worth ten times what it went for on eBay" (where the seller may be a CR member), perhaps curtesy suggests the responses should be offlist. It might be better to limit onlist responses primarily to factual information as to what that item has in fact sold for recently.
I agree that even new members should avoid obsession with prices to the exclusion of all else, least others believe they are abusing their membership here, which is after all a privilege, not a right. But in this case perhaps you have already applied the gentle reminder of which Tom Sanders spoke.
Regards,
Jerry Moos Houston, TX
OROBOYZ@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 3/29/2005 6:34:34 AM Eastern Standard Time, jerrymoos@sbcglobal.net writes:
<< Not sure I agee here, Dale. I think it is legitimate to ask questions here about classic bikes, including about their value or how actions may affect their value. Restore or not restore? Repaint or touch up? Upgrade a component or not? What's a reasonable price to pay for some model? Whether an NIP component would lose value if the box seal were broken strikes me a legitimate and even fascinating question. Perhaps the fact someone would ask the question highlights the silliness aspect of bike collecting and of collecting in general, but there you have it. >>
My point was that in this particular instance, there is a fear that this "inquiry to value" is a misuse of the CR list... I didn't say it was a violation of the rules, in which case the poster might get booted... No, I was issuing a warning and reminder as to the intent and wording of the applicable rule.
Specifically to your points, it occurs to me that specific dollar value is the lesser aspect of some of the considerations you make. For instance, "Restore or not restore? Repaint or touch up? Upgrade a component or not? " has nothing to do with an exact price, but just whether those steps are prudent for maintaining the essence or mojo of the bike. I think that is definitely a correct role for the CR list.
Now ,"What's a reasonable price to pay for some model?" strikes me as a dangerous topic.. I always think back to California CR members writing that certain items are a dime a dozen and are not worth $X amount that someone just paid...while those of us in more remote regions or less bike friendly environments might rarely see those items and therefore be more likely to pay a lot more. In the end, a reasonably amount to pay is only answerable by the buyer and his/her answer to the question "what's it worth to me?"
And, in my opinion, nothing is more obnoxious than someone buying something and a bunch of observers chiming in saying the buyer paid too much, got ripped off, etc.
Thanks Dale
Dale Brown
Greensboro, North Carolina USA
ClassicRendezvous.com