In a message dated 3/7/05 2:17:02 PM, brandon@ivycycles.com writes:
>
> Albert was a contract builder very late and wasn't ever a Masi employee.
>
True, but I'm not sure how that excepts him from meeting the qualification o f your original statement ("None of these builders where [sic] "professional" builders before building for Masi except for Mario..."). Note that when Mario built Masis out of his Verona shop he was not a Masi employee either.
>
> > Well, Faliero's got his son to carry on his name and some would argue
> > he's doing a better job of it than Haro.
>
> Since we haven't actually seen what Haro has done let alone actually
> ridden the bikes how can you say that?
>
Well, I've got the catalog here in front of me and there are ten bikes in th e line that vary vastly in quality and price. As for riding them, I'd be happy to give any of them a try but I don't think there's a single one I'd t rade my Masi Special for.
It is pretty common knowledge that Faliero Masi never made more than one bik e (aside from a short time when the Prestige and 3V were being produced at the
same time). This leads some of us to believe that Faliero would rather sta nd behind one good product, than a large line of mass-produced junk. And when
he did subcontract, he kept a pretty close eye on who was doing the work. I could very well be wrong given the many changes in the industry, but I have a hard time believing he would put his name on a cookie-cutter sub-$600 bike that is the modern day equivalent of a Schwinn Varsity.
>
> I'm not sure I see what you're saying about the bicycle industry. As
> someone who has worked in the industry for quite a while and is taking
> a break from building a frame to write this email I can say not much
> has changed. I keep hearing about how the industry is going to
> hell-in-a-handbasket, but it's just now true. The products being
> produced by hand today are better most I've seen from years past.
>
If you are talking about the small number of one-man shops that still build steel frames, I agree. However if you are talking about the other 99.9% of
the bike industry, I don't agree. While there have been a lot of positive advances in component design, I think the aluminum frame benefits manufactur ers far more than consumers, given it's limited lifespan and inferior ride. I
don't have much more use for carbon, and I'll let you know about Ti when I c an afford it.
> I'd
> gladly take a modern Baylis over a U.S. Masi, or a modern Sachs over a
> Witcomb USA, etc, etc. Production frames have always been production
> frames no matter where they're built. I see more folks being able to
> make a living in the industry than I have a in the past and this is a
> good thing. I'd say to folks who think the industry is going to hell,
> quit your current jobs and go to work for the bicycle industry and try
> to change things. It's the same as complaining about the government
> and not voting.
>
Not it is not the same... you can vote and still keep your current job. Fo r your analogy is to make any sense, we should keep our current jobs, stay out
of the bike industry, and change the industry by voting with our wallets. Which is exactly what I'm doing, and probably most of the others on this lis t are too (quick show of hands... who here is gonna buy a Haro Masi? OK, n ow who's gonna cruise eBay for an old Carlsbad? hmmm... thought so ;-)
You make a vallid point that that folks like Baylis and Sachs produce fine frames that should not be compared with production frames. But by the same token there are degrees of production outside of the one-man shop that one c annot rationally compare to one another. Carlsbad under Mario and Faliero was a production facility, true. But they produced a single product to a high standard and there's no way one could compare it to the the type of producti on that was being done at Schwinn or Raleigh (in fact, the very best frames from tho se facilities were done in a completely separate area that had more in common with Masis's shop). The only point I've been trying to make in this whole thread is that the frames that now bear the Masi name have far more in commo n with the broad line of a company like Schwinn or Raleigh than they do with the ol d Masi Special that I admire.
>
> It's like my wife teaches her students, "Just because you don't like it
> doesn't mean it's not art."
>
True. But not everything with pretensions to art is in fact art. Putting
the Masi name on some of these cheap bikes is like putting the Patek Phillip e name on a Timex... it may be good for the company's bottom line but it ultimately destroys the name.
Bob Hovey
Columbus, GA