<<Joel Metz wrote>>
> i always marvel that everyone on this list seemingly is willing to
> assume the worst case scenario - that since theres a set of used
> dropouts sawn out of a frame, the conclusion everyone jumps to is
> that the seller cut them from something significant, and is guilty of
> some great travesty, of a blasphemy against all bicycle history.
>
> sure, a few have mentioned the possibility that they may have come
> from a damaged frame - but that always seems to come as an
> afterthought, and seems to come with the hope that the frame might
> have been saveable at least as a visual artifact. it never seems to
> occur that the frame might possibly have been completely mangled or
> something - old bike frames of all descriptions can be found locked
> up and smashed by the unknown hand of fate (otherwise known as the
> backing motorist) in cities all over the world. ive taken parts off
> of these bikes myself, and doubtless, were i provided with a hacksaw,
> would take frame bits as well, were the frame unsaveable.
>
> as well i will concede that the separation of parts and frame bits
> from perfectly good bits can indeed be a tragedy - much as it is in
> the example given of sellers tearing pages from complete magazines to
> sell the advertising images - but this is by no means the exclusive
> domain of ebay, and we should not be so naive as to think that ebay
> is its cause, either.
>
> sure, i am given to wonder, as with the rest of you, what became of
> the rest of the bike that those dropouts came from. but i am also
> aware that the sellers of the pieces in question are collectors of
> some repute, one of whom (speedbicycles), at least, is known to me as
> someone who i seriously doubt would cut dropouts from a useable or
> displayable frame.
>
> what comes to a head in this for me is the continual tendency of the
> list to assume the worst, to act in a manner that gives the air that
> somehow its membership is superior in its ability as custodians of
> bicycle history - that *we* would never have done what we assume
> *they* have done, and that *they* are villians for having done it -
> with nothing beyond shoddy circumstantial evidence that a frame of
> any use or significance was destroyed.
>
> perhaps im willing to give unknown persons more benefit of the doubt
> than most, but i would rather cautiously give that benefit than
> descend into assuming the worst of anything that raises my eyebrow.
>
> just a bit of an appeal to step back from the lists seemingingly
> typical "shoot first, ask questions later" approach to this sort of
> thing. if this would be considered off-topic, my apologies, but i
> couldnt refrain any longer.
Joel et al,
I agree. while it would be heresy to chop up an important frame, I have no qualms about raiding a frame for parts. For example, here in Sydney, every 3 months there is the "council clean-ups". where everyone puts everything they do not want on their front yard and the council comes by with a big garbage compacter collects it. Everything from tins of paint to bicycles is crushed and dumped in the landfill. I constantly pick up bikes or parts of bikes from these pile of rubbish ahead of the garbage truck. So I have a collection of 30 - 40 frames which I could not sell for $1.00 pc but I constantly raid them for parts. I have frames with Columbus dropouts, Suntour, and more. But the frames are worthless, nobody wants them. So I would rather rescue the frame, hacksaw off the dropouts and give or sell them to someone who will use them than to see the whole frame crushed and buried.
I would assume that most of the chopped dropouts on eBay are a follow along from the set that sold for a telephone number recently, because there are a bunch of us out with stacks of worthless frame, that we just can't throw away, but can't justify to keep, that suddenly see there is some value in them and a way of "reusing and recycling" them. It surely has crossed my mind.
Recently I seen a photo posted from one of the lists title something along the lines, what to do with your old frames, the photo was of a tower or some sort of about 40 frame welded together and called art. You wonder how good dropouts died there.
It is a sad, but real fact of our world, that good things seldom have value beyond the original buyer. Go to your nearest a auction house, for a first-hand experience. Yes, there a few things that make the "collectors" status. I believe that eBay has been one of the greatest enviromental successes of the modern world. What happened to all the stuff that gets recycled on eBay today before its event. Most of it got dumped in a landfill.
P. Lynn Miller
Sydney, Australia
http://www.chainringtransitauthority.com