Subject: Re: [CR]Spectrum 30th Anniversary frame Message-ID: <20050923030948.65237.qmail@web30614.mail.mud.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <000e01c5bfd9$5e2ccd10$210110ac@PETERTR0JQH071> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: list Message: 1
I might be mistaken but it looks as though Tom Kellog use both
silver and bronze brazing rods on this frame. The rear dropout
areas appear to be attached using bronze rod (which "fills"
better) whereas most of the other joints appear to have been
done with silver rod. Is that truly the case?
(One time) youth wants to know,
Fred Rednor - Arlington, Virginia (USA)
> Norris Lockley wrote,
> (snipped)
> >> > Hopefully the Spectrum frame was silver-brazed
> (USA-Speak), seeing that
> >> > the tubing used was Columbus S.
> > Columbus really had "a thing" about the necessity of using
> silver alloys
> > with these tubes rather than ...
>
> Norris , Columbus might have had "a thing" about using
> silver,,, but they
> failed to tell their fellow countrymen, who proceeded to
> build a gazzilion
> frames with their beloved brass/bronze rods.
> IMHO, the skill of the brazer, might be more important than
> the brazing
> alloy used. In the old days (classic content) I used mostly
> brass. These
> days mostly silver... Is there a difference in the quality,
> ride, or any
> thing else because of the alloy used? I don't think so...
> Oh, almost forgot, nice job Tom,,,er-ah Jeff!! 'Way ta
> show'em your stuff
> boyz!!!
>
> Peter Weigle
> Lyme Ct.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> _______________________________________________
>
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Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 23:23:55 EDT From: OROBOYZ@aol.com To: fred_rednor@yahoo.com, classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: [CR]Spectrum frame and brazing Message-ID: <5b.72082d9e.3064cf4b@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 2
In a message dated 9/22/2005 11:13:52 PM Eastern Daylight Time, fred_rednor@yahoo.com writes:
<< I might be mistaken but it looks as though Tom Kellog use both silver and bronze brazing rods on this frame. The rear dropout areas appear to be attached using bronze rod (which "fills" better) whereas most of the other joints appear to have been done with silver rod. Is that truly the case? >>
Sure! Virtually all modern USA custom builders have done that.. the brass fills the big voids at the drop out ends and, the theory goes, is less of a heat issue there cause the parts are so chunky. Silver is used the rest of the joints because the gaps are so close and you have thin stuff to deal with which, the theory continues, would be otherwise be damaged by the higher heat that brass requires. As you may infer from my phraseology, some pooh pooh all that heat build up stuff and point to the Euro builders who have built a zillion bikes with brass and suffer relatively no failures due to apparent overheating. The debate rages on.....
Dale Brown Greensboro, NC USA ------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 20:35:12 -0700 (PDT) From: Raymond Dobbins <raydobbins2003@yahoo.com> To: Classic Rendezvous Bike List <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org> Subject: Re: [CR]Current Scam Alert - with proper sign-off Message-ID: <20050923033512.20690.qmail@web60414.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20050922210323.69971.qmail@web60418.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: list Message: 3
forgot to sign off properly, apologies to all.
ray (mea culpa) dobbins
miami florida
> ray,
>
> i just took a look at your new frame, SWEET! congratulations. btw,
> imagine the sudden but short elation of the guys who received second
> chance notices for this baby. a double whammy: first they lose the
> auction, then they realize it's a scam second chance - i've been
> there,
> aaargh!
>
> take care,
>
> ray
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 22:19:51 -0800 From: Chuck Schmidt <chuckschmidt@earthlink.net> To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: [CR]Velo Rendezvous 5... Big News!!! Message-ID: <43339E44.E5786BD2@earthlink.net> References: <20050922214053.96684.qmail@web80728.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: list Reply-To: chuckschmidt@earthlink.net Message: 4
========================================================================= NEWS FLASH!!! This just in!!! NEWS FLASH!!! This just in!!! NEWS FLASH!!! =========================================================================
I have just received news that the largest vintage lightweight bike collector in the Far East has sent in his entry for Velo Rendezvous 5 and is heading towards the port of Long Beach and then to Pasadena with his entire collection of vintage lightweight bikes!!!
In his collection are multiple Alcyons, René HERSEs, Routens, Uragos, Alex SiNGERs, Caminades, Dürkopps, Diamants, Deis, Glorias, Montelaticis, Galmozzis, Torpados, Flying Scots, Granbys, HB Hurlows, Hetchins, Nagasawas, Malvern Stars, Capos, RIHs, and even a few of the elusive Egarims!
Indeed, here's a photo of his entire collection enroute to Pasadena as
we speak...
http://www.velo-retro.com/
========================================================================= NEWS FLASH!!! This just in!!! NEWS FLASH!!! This just in!!! NEWS FLASH!!! =========================================================================
Chuck "get that entry fee in before the cutoff date" Schmidt South Pasadena, Southern California http://www.velo-retro.com (VR 5, reprints, timelines & t-shirts)
[thanks jack bissell]
. ------------------------------
Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 07:49:43 +0100 From: "NIGEL LAND" <ndland@btinternet.com> To: <frameteam2003@yahoo.com> Cc: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: [CR]Re: Fixed ride Message-ID: <002901c5c00b$02518f80$c6b58351@com> Content-Type: text/plain;charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Reply-To: NIGEL LAND <ndland@btinternet.com> Message: 5
Hi Sam, I am fairly new to fixed as well, using a hand painted Hobbs that I bought through a local ad. It has a 69/67 flip-flop hub and I find around here, on the edge of the Lincolnshire Wolds that 69 inch is manageable. We have a few steep but short hills and the rest is flat or rolling. I find that alternating between fixed and geared is the biggest problem, when you momentarily try to freewheel - whoa! It has been remarked before that fixed is excellent for making your muscles more supple and for simply making you more part of the machine. No worrying what gear you are in, just go with the flow and ride. Fixed was standard for winter training in the UK up to a few years ago and has made a big comeback due to the interest of city couriers and young commuters (especially in London), who find it is better for beating the traffic. Choice of gear depends on terrain and fitness, I guess, but there is no crime in getting off on the steep ones! Nigel (can't do sums) Land Barton on Humber UK
Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 11:39:47 -0700 (PDT) From: sam lingo <frameteam2003@yahoo.com> To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: [CR]Fixed ride Message-ID: <20050922183947.28379.qmail@web51511.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <009b01c5bfa2$6ec52c30$6501a8c0@ScottPeterson> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: list Message: 16
I dropped by the lobby at the Houston show for a peek at the frames and to see a couple of old Friends.Got a change to talk briefly with Brian Baylis.He advised sense my work didn't permit regular ride times to try a fixed gear for a more condensed work out.It took me a while to build a fixed gear but finely finished one.I've staked out a nice 15 mile round trip from my house and rode it twice so far.First time the saddle was too high,this time a lot better.This is a self training project and was wondering if others use a fixed gear for training or such?And any tips on this type of ride? always your comments are appreciated---sam sam lingo,pleasanton tx
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Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 04:32:20 EDT From: REClassicBikes@aol.com To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: [CR]Re: Riding fixed wheels. Message-ID: <192.48e0917c.30651794@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 6
Perhaps someone can help me with a question that often ask myself.
When you are riding fixed and you start to go down hill and you hit that point where you think your legs cannot go any faster, what happens if you try?
I mean, the hill steepens, gravity works and you really do red line? I have always run out of nerve. (usually around the 200 rpm mark). i was always of the opinion that you would start to bounce (or sway as in my case) so much that you would lose control and fall. Is this the case? I have never seen it happen. Or is it possible, if you are super smooth, to find that point where, without trying to "back pedal", the natural friction of your legs will hold it back, at even super steep grades. say 20% plus on a 66"
Regards Martin Coopland, Scotland, http://www.BatesBicycles.com
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Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 07:14:36 -0400 From: "Aldo Ross" <aldoross4@siscom.net> To: <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org> Subject: [CR]Pic of the Day - Faked TdF Photo 1949 Message-ID: <000601c5c02f$fbe54630$3619fbd1@Newhouse> Content-Type: text/plain;charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 7
Pic of the Day 23 September, 2005
Faked TdF Photo, 1949
http://www.wooljersey.com/
I snagged this image from eBay, so I don't know what paper it comes from, but it supposedly shows former champion Cyrille Van Hauwaert "surrounded" by modern champions Gino Bartali, Fausto Coppi, and Stan Ockers.
Looks more like Fausto and Stan are dancing together, and Cyrille is trying to cut in.
And here's clear evidence that God Himself favors Gino - see how he is illuminated by a celestial glow from the left, while everyone else gets their light from the mundane sunlight to the right.
Aldo Ross BlueBall, Ohio
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Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 11:24:31 +0000 From: "neil foddering" <neilfoddering@hotmail.com> To: Classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: [CR]Items for sale Message-ID: <BAY101-F383408B4ABA32BABC4DE59BF960@phx.gbl> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 8
I have the following items fro sale on eBay:
1930's Duralumin Gloria Tour de France brake calipers, item #6564378327 Constrictor Cobra pedals, item #6564144917 Frank Patterson original pen-and -ink drawings, items #6564384707 and 6564385805
Neil Foddering Weymouth, England.
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Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 04:43:48 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Davies <msdavi59@yahoo.com> To: ternst <ternst1@cox.net>, sam lingo <frameteam2003@yahoo.com>, classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: Re: [CR]Fixed ride Message-ID: <20050923114348.88971.qmail@web33304.mail.mud.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <00e901c5bfc1$cebea0c0$0200a8c0@D8XCLL51> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: list Message: 9
(Ted asked about gearing) First let me state that I'm still a novice at this and am learning as I go. My feeling has been that something in the range of 65-75 gear inches is a good place to start. I'm still working on technique, and while I don't bounce as much as I first did when pedalling furiously downhill, I find it's a gradual learning process.The building up (the bike, not me) process was easy for me as I snagged a whole box of various size sprockets from my parents club days in the 1950's, along with a 50-year old set of wheels with rear flip-flop airlite hub. I haven't had any trouble using the sprockets on the freewheel side (non-lockring) side of the wheel, but I also don't practice panic stops or heavy braking via the driveline. I currently have three bikes set up with fixed wheel. The 1942 Claud Butler has 700 wheels, and 50 by 20 gearing which comes out to around a 68-inch gear. I find this is great for getting around town. Next is a 1950's Viking, with 27" wheels and 46 by 16 gearing, which comes out to a 78-inch gear. This was the first one I set up, although I don't ride it much at the moment. Last is a 1960's / 1970's Italian frame (which I need help ID-ing) which is set up with 700 wheels, and 48 by 16 gearing, which comes out to an 81-inch gear. This one is a joy for going fast on rolling terrain...it's hard on the uphills, but it's geared high enough that 30mph+ downhills aren't a problem. Both the latter two bikes have flip-flop hubs, and I keep an extra (2 teeth smaller) sprocket on the freewheel side, figuring if I need to go faster I can stop and flip the wheel. Of some consideration are the pedals you use...you certainly don't want your feet to ever become detached. Toeclips should work great, although I use clipless pedals as this is what I've grown used to. I favor ATB-type pedals as they are two sided and mindless to get into and out of. I thought about using road type (Look) pedals (I use these on my OT road bikes) but figured the ATB pedals were easier to get into (no worry about whether the pedal is upside down or not). I've had one mishap as a result of not having the pedals adjusted tight enough...going up a hill at quite a clip, standing up in the saddle and pulling hard, my right foot pulled out of the pedal on the upstroke. On a freewheel bike this would be no big deal, but on fixed wheel, once you have a head of steam going it's harder to stop pedalling, particularly with only one leg in the pedals. Bike went sideways and I was thrown off...dinged up handlebars, brake lever and bruised shoulder. Probably looked quite odd to bystanders (why on earth was that guy thrown off his bike like that?) but I don't think anyone saw it happen. Other than that no problems. One of the great joys of fixed wheel (apart from riding it) is the ease with which you can set up a vintage bike. No fancy gears or other components to hunt down, if need be you can get by with just a front brake...in short it's a great way to ride those old bikes without having to acquire a lot of period stuff. Of course, I'm sure some would disagree with this utilitarian approach, but I figure as long as you don't do anything irreversible to the bike, and look after it, the bike is going to love you for taking it out each day... Michael Davies St Louis
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Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 14:39:46 +0200 From: Amir Avitzur <avitzur@013.net> To: Classicrendezvous <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org> Subject: [CR]Saddle disassembly & riveting Message-ID: <JJEEKLDDELHGFDGDBELBEEIHCFAA.avitzur@013.net.il> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1255 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 10
A while back, after over-oiling an old saddle, I asked a question about saddle rejuvenation. That saddle was a Wrights Swallow. After cleaning and oiling it, I put it on a bike and rode on it. A few weeks later the leather tore around the rivets that held the metal support in the middle of the saddle.
Earlier today I took that saddle to a good shoe and leather repairman. He said the leather was still good and could be fixed, but would have to be disassembled from the saddle frame. He's willing to fix the leather, but will not disassemble and reassemble the saddle. I would have to do that.
So my questions are:
Can anyone explain how to remove the leather from a saddle frame and put it back?
What tools are needed?
Who sells rivets?
Amir Avitzur Ramat-Gan, Israel
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I have a 1963 Legnano Grand Premio in classic Legnano green on ebay. Item # 6563099038. This bike is in original as found condition. I have not touched it in any way. Very very clean original. From the look of it, it was hardly ridden. Pedals have bolts hung on string to keep them right side up. Obviously not enthusiast ridden! Size is 56.5 c/c, top tube also 56.5. Components as follows. Campagnolo Record Derailleurs, shifters, hubs, Legnano crank, Cinelli stem, Cinelli Mod Giro D'Italia bars, Universal brake levers (hoods cracked), Universal extra brakes, Sheffield Sprint Pedals, Brooks B17 Narrow saddle and Cerchi Fiamme rims. No dents, very little rust. Problems, missing toeclips and straps, missing bar end plugs, rear left side chain stain has surface rust(can be seen in photo). Tires need replacing.
Dan Rivers
Toronto