Don the price I offered was not deeply discounted, it is what I charge. If you just wanted a frame only fillet-brazed that would be $1050. And before you start throwing around things like like "self-proclaimed KOF builder" please check the archives of this list and the Framebuilders list. I can say without reservation my interest in bikes of the "classic" era is more than passing. I may be a new builder, but I'm a 20 year bike wrench veteran. If you have any questions about anything please ask I'm more than happy to answer any questions you might have. I'm more than happy to work in trade as the barter system goes further back than the monetary system. Ah but alas you again are not willing to as I asked "put your money where your mouth is." I would really recommend taking a few basic business classes and learn about the concept of how supply and demand effect pricing on the retail market. After this spend a few years working in the bike industry so that you can then understand why you don't "don't understand their business sense." As they say you can't understand a man until you've walked in their shoes. By the way I wear size 45 Dansko clogs. best, Brandon"monkeyman"Ives pretender to the crown in Vancouver, B.C.
On Sunday, Mar 12, 2006, at 18:21 US/Pacific, Don Wilson wrote:
> Well, a few people agreed with me that prices should
> be raised dramatically to sustain the KOF builders. A
> lot of people disagreed--some with noteworthy zeal.
> One person even offered, if I recall correctly, to
> make me a frame to my specs for a deeply discounted
> price! This is a most fascinating inverse bargaining
> strategy. I advocate raising prices to enrich and
> sustain builders. This fellow says (without tongue in
> cheek it seemed), no, I insist on lowering my price
> for you. Other things being equal, I supposed I should
> have been flattered and grateful. But other things
> seemed unequal. He got cash. I got a bike I didn't
> need, want or ask for. He said he was doing it so that
> I and others could put our monies where our mouthes
> were. I preferred to have food and drink and words
> where my mouth was. However, if I presently needed a
> bike by a self-proclaimed KOF builder, I might take
> him up on his offer by swapping an equal amount of my
> professional services for his frame even up (no cash,
> no tax, just an even up trade of equivalent US dollar
> value of my professional services using my hourly rate
> based on time and materials in exchange for his
> discounted frame); that would in turn, I suppose, also
> give this particular builder a chance to put his frame
> where his mouth would be other things being equal, as
> it were. But I'm not in the market and I don't wish to
> try to bargain this fellow into building a frame for
> no cash at all (liquidity matters even to inverse
> bargainers and I'm half afraid he might discount his
> price even more), so I'll respectfully decline. Of
> course, my favorite responses were "stuck mentally"
> and "an embarrassment to the world." Thanks (I think)
> for those pithy, incisive, and well-reasoned
> arguments.
>
> Regardless the positives resulting from my post
> outweight the negatives. Here are two.
>
> One positive is: I now know I can still get a KOF
> frame when I need one for less than a mass-produced,
> re-issue of an Eames easy chair...probably even
> without an inverse bargaining discount. Is this a
> great country, or what?
>
> Another positive--though a somewhat melancholy one--is
> that America's KOF framebuilders seem to have a wish
> to emulate not only the excellence of bikes of great
> English and European custom builders, but the
> unfortunate destinies of so many of their businesses.
> Why is this any kind of positive at all, you ask?
> Because: it probably ensures there will be another
> wave of rare, collectible bikes in due time offering
> great craftsmanship AND nostalgia. Frankly, I could do
> without this positive.
>
> I like these iconoclastic builders and their sometimes
> magnificient frames. I have one I bought second hand
> and I didn't steal it. If mine is representative of
> what these other fellows can do, their bikes are
> wonders. No, I don't understand their business sense.
> No, in some cases, I don't understand their bargaining
> logics. No, in a few cases, I can't understand the
> virulence of their responses. But, yes, I like them
> just the same and am grateful for their contributions
> to bicycling.
>
> There. Not one flame. Not even a spark. Just alot of
> bemusement, respect and love.
>
> Don Wilson
> Los Olivos, CA
>
>
>
> D.C. Wilson dcwilson3@yahoo.com
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