Mark,
OFFLIST
That is an interesting story. It is something I always am concerned about when I test bikes. If a bike works for me, the whimpy guy who likes flexible frames, it may not be appropriate for others with different power outputs or different pedaling styles...
In the end, I tell readers that they should talk to their builder and see what they say... and if they don't like what they hear, find a different builder. But I would trust the builder's judgment more than the riders, unless the rider has ridden many different bikes. In my case, I told the builder "Make me one like that one" and I hope it'll ride as well as "that one."
Best,
Jan
At 8:19 PM -0700 7/14/06, Mark Bulgier wrote:
>
>Ray Green wrote:
>> Big Magnus is 1m92 tall and weighs 95kg. He churns out 1750
>> watts (today on Eurosport Floyd Landis said his max is 1100 watts).
>> Bianchi gave Magnus his standard issue team bike. He said it
>> was too flexible. I think it was superlight alloy. They made
>> him another (I think made out of titanium) and in tests he
>> was putting 150 more watts to the back wheel.
>
>I'm all for an appropriate amount of stiffness, and for big powerful
>sprinty-type dudes, appropriate means Very Stiff.
>
>I don't believe story of the 150-watt increase in output though. What
>was the test protocol? Both tests the same day, with identical
>equipment? Any attempt at disguising the frames, to rule out
>psychological effects?
>
>I built two sprint frames for 5-time US national champion Ken Carpenter
>(1988-92). I mean, he won Natz 5 times on my frame. He came to us
>because his previous two custom sprint frames, a Kirkbride Masi and a
>Serotta, were "way" too flexible. Both those estimable builders knew
>the guy was 6'6", 220 lb and extremely powerful even for his size, but
>they still thought too much "in the box" (for instance, normal tube
>diameters or only slightly oversized). I knew I would have to make one
>of the stiffest track frames ever, to please this guy.
>
>The plan was to make two way-oversized tubing frames, where the first
>would be his eventual training bike, with bomb-proof thicker tube walls
>-- but he would race on it a bit to try out some of the ideas and the
>geometry. Then with that feedback we'd pull out all the stops and make
>the second, optimized bike, presumably lighter.
>
>He was very pleased with the first one, which he proclaimed "almost
>stiff enough" (!) Egads, I thought even this fast-twitch freak of
>nature would find that frame overly rigid, but no - the plans changed,
>and now the full race bike was to be made even heavier! Like the
>princess and the pea, if he felt ANY flex, the frame wasn't good enough.
>
>The heavier one is the one he rode to 5 national sprint championships,
>the last year or two with it painted to look like titanium because his
>team was sponsored by Merlin. :)
>
>I don't think the reason he won is because of his stiffer frame though.
>Even if we take as given that the extra stiffness made him faster, I
>think at least some of that effect was in his head. That is, if you
>think the bike is faster, you may well go faster because the of the
>psych factor. It seems to me (broad generalization follows) that
>sprinters are even more prone to the psych factor. I have heard stories
>of sprinters beaten before the race even starts, by being "psyched out".
>At least some sprinters I know believe in that.
>
>Mr. Ernst, care to comment?
>
>Flipside of the "thinking inside the box" problem, Ken's then-girlfriend
>Renee Duprel also came to us for a sprint frame, and I determined the
>main problem with hers was that it too was made with regular sprint
>frame tubing, and she needed lighter. I made her bike a full 3 lb
>lighter than her previous bike, and she went on to Silver at the
>Olympics. She felt the amount of spring in the frame was well-suited to
>her and made her faster than the old, overly-stiff bike. She *was*
>measurably faster, but it could have been training, or the psych factor
>- no way to really compare the intrinsic speed of the two bikes.
>
>Mark Bulgier
>Seattle WA USA