Re: [CR]Brazing 753

(Example: Framebuilders)

From: <"brianbaylis@juno.com">
Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2006 04:48:42 GMT
To: goodrichbikes@netzero.net
Subject: Re: [CR]Brazing 753
cc: jschaer@columbus.rr.com
cc: jschaer@columbus.rr.com

Curt,

Regarding brass brazing and 753, and what Dave Moulton said at the

Cirque.

Moultons 753 test for certification was silver brazed. It did

pass "the test" from Reynolds, as one would expect. The 753 test kits

were provided by Ted Kirkbride, as he wanted each builder who was

working for Masi to be Reynolds 753 certified for various reasons;

(I'm pretty sure none of the Masis any of these people built were

made from Reynolds 753). He had 4 test kits; one for himself, one for

Dave Moulton, one for Dave Tesch, and one for me. The other three

brazed their samples and passed the test and all were certified. I

wasn't working for Masi, I was independant; so I had no need for the

753 test. I didn't see the approiateness of that material for the

type of frames I build, not then nor now nor any time in between. I

still have a strong preferance for the standard Reynolds and Columbus

of the 70's. Overall it seems to be the most versitile and practical

tubing for the type of frames I build.

So physics are still intact. No one is likely to pass a 753 brazing

test using brass rod as the filler. Otherwise, what would be the

point of the test, as Curt suggests?

Brian Baylis La Mesa, CA Again, I was there when it all went down; and I remember the details.


-- Curt Goodrich wrote:


At 05:26 PM 7/19/2006, Jon Schaer wrote:
>At 06:15 AM 7/19/06 -0500, John Thompson wrote:
>
> >Using brass requires higher temperature and thereby negates the
> >advantage of the heat treatment. Use brass and all you have is a
> >light-gauge 531 set.
>At this year's Cirque, Dave Moulton said that he always used brass

for
>753. Thought that his torch flame and brazing speed avoided

overheating.
>I think he even said his sample passed with Reynolds.

Nah, it's about temperature not time. If he got it hot enough to

melt the brass, he got it hot enough to undo the heat treatment. The

heat treatment was the thing the Reynolds folks were looking to

preserve. Hence the recommendation to silver braze. Silver melts

before the heat treatment goes away. I mean no disrespect to Dave

but physics are physics. With that said, plenty of 753 bikes were

successfully brass brazed. Why? I don't know but frame builders are

a stubborn lot. Tell them you can't do something and they'll do it

just in spite. I use 753 on a weekly basis. Silver brazed, of

course.

Curt Goodrich
Minneapolis, MN