David,
Thank you very much for putting this into perspective. I'm not only
encouraging people to think about framebuilding a little differently,
but to cast off a lot of the garbage that many of us consider facts
and truths about the nature of frames and framebuilding. A lot of the
garbage comes from the industry inself. It comes in the form of
advertising and promotion and much of the selective and twisted
information that passes for advertising is what sends people in the
wrong direction, if true understanding is the goal. Many benifit from
this from a business standpoint. But just as many suffer at the hands
of big marketing because people in general are too lazy to actually
do the research themselves. Then "authorities" come along and make it
easy to decide "what to think" instead of providing accurate and
helpful relavent information. Teach people "how to think" is my view.
I'm pro education and anti advertising and always have been. BS
advertising is what makes me angry. Yes, it's part of "how business
is done"; which is exactly why I don't claim to be "in business" as a
framebuilder. My purpose is quite different. Apparently this is
disturbing to some framebuilders.
Don't expect me to join in. If I have to stand alone on these
principals, then so be it. Sorry if it make some people nervous. I
intend no harm, I only want truth and knowledge to be the foundations
of our beliefs. (Yeah, I know, fat chance, but I'm going to try
anyway).
Brian Baylis
La Mesa, CA
Curt,
Your reply to Brian's post really strikes me as being off-base and
missing the point, and I can only hope that your comments were the
result of record-high temps in Minneapolis these past few days.
Brian said in his post: ".... framebuilding is pretty simple in the
basic form and most anyone with reasonable motor skills, some
patience, and a good dose of common sense, and a little practice, can
build excellent bike frames". I think the key here are the
words "...in the basic form....". To me, Brian was just trying to
encourage CR members to perhaps pick up a set of torches and give
framebuilding a try, and that they should not be intimidated by the
framebuilding process. In all seriousness, Curt, don't Brian's
comments pretty much sum up your past ten years of framebuilding? You
got an itch to build frames, moved to Seattle, kicked around from
mentor to mentor (or shop to shop), picking up skills here & there,
then you fell into the Rivendell gig after having about 5-6 years of
experience under your belt.
I've built two framesets to date and I was happy with the results.
Do I still have a lot to learn? Sure, but my initial efforts were
not garbage. I don't know if any of NASA's old space chimps could
build a frame, but I'm quite sure that the majority of CR members are
capable of picking up a set of torches and turning out a very
serviceable first frameset (note to CR members: I'm not comparing you
to space chimps!!!). Hats off to Brian for giving the CR membership
encouragement to do so, which is something I haven't seen from any
other established framebuilders on the CR list.
Now it seems you & John Greene are involved in some sort of pissing
contest with Brian over this "mystery framebuilder". Guys: I don't
think the CR membership is privy to the ins and outs of the high- pressure, highly-charged, politicized world of framebuilders, so this
is all over our heads. We have no idea who you guys are referring
to, which to me is further proof that Brian's comments were not
intended as malicious. Perhaps the two of you can mount your own
militias and do your attacking somewhere else? Bottom line: Brian
Baylis has been extremely generous on this list with his knowledge
and encouragement, something I haven't seen from
other "framebuilders", and his post to the CR list was meant to "de- mystify" the framebuilding process and as a bit of encouragement to
CR members who have given thought to taking a stab at framebuilding.
Dave Patrick
Chelsea, Michigan