I have to agree with Mark on this one. The braze on in question has a scallop opening that rises suddenly at the middle to the shape of the entering cable. That metalwork is amazing in itself. However, the chrome has deteriorated with time, as chrome does, and does not accurately reflect the object under it. As my eighty three year old father says, "Mirrors are not the same quality they used to be,"(Eckhart Tolle).
Regards,
Richard Long (RIX BICYCLES) Temecula, CA
>From: classicrendezvous-request@bikelist.org
>Reply-To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
>To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
>Subject: Classicrendezvous Digest, Vol 44, Issue 23
>Date: 5 Aug 2006 11:56:08 -0700
>
>Send Classicrendezvous mailing list submissions to
> classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
>
>To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
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>
>
>CR
>
>Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Brazing and/or frame building Videos or DVDs? (Don Wilson)
> 2. the logics of Flats on Axles (Amir Avitzur)
> 3. Re: Brazing and/or frame building Videos or DVDs? (Mark Stonich)
> 4. Re: Classicrendezvous Digest, Vol 44, Issue 22 Lucas Cyclometer
> 5. Re: Re: Classicrendezvous Digest, Vol 44, Issue 22 Lucas
> Cyclometer (Edward Albert)
> 6. Re: Belated Intro
> 7. 1973 and 1974 Motobecane Grand Record Specifications
> 8. Does brazing release toxic emissions? (Don Wilson)
> 9. Rene Herse for sale (alex m)
> 10. Re: Rene Herse for sale:Q about the internal cable entry...
> (Don Wilson)
> 11. RE: Re: KOF rules! (Mark Bulgier)
> 12. RE: Rene Herse for sale:Q about the internal cable entry...
> (Mark Bulgier)
>
>
>----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2006 23:08:55 -0700 (PDT)
>From: Don Wilson <dcwilson3@yahoo.com>
>To: Classic Rendezvous <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
>Subject: [CR]Brazing and/or frame building Videos or DVDs?
>Message-ID: <20060805060855.54487.qmail@web52509.mail.yahoo.com>
>In-Reply-To: <8C88657DBBC6569-D8C-3374@FWM-D14.sysops.aol.com>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
>Precedence: list
>Message: 1
>
>Does anyone know of an instructional video or DVD
>about: a) brazing; or b) frame building; or c) both?
>
>Don Wilson
>Los Olivos, CA USA
>
>
>D.C. Wilson dcwilson3@yahoo.com
>-----------------------------------------------------------
>Note: This message may contain confidential and/or privileged
>information. If you are not the addressee or authorized to
>receive this for the addressee, you must not use, copy, disclose or take
>any action based on this message or any information herein. If you have
>received this message in error, please advise the sender immediately by
>reply e-mail and delete this message. Thank you for your cooperation.
>-------------------------------------------------------------
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>------------------------------
>
>Date: Sat, 05 Aug 2006 14:33:22 +0200
>From: Amir Avitzur <avitzur@013.net>
>To: Classicrendezvous <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
>Subject: [CR]the logics of Flats on Axles
>Message-ID: <JJEEKLDDELHGFDGDBELBEEOIDHAA.avitzur@013.net.il>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1255
>MIME-Version: 1.0
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>Message: 2
>
>
>Below is a summary of the responses I got to my question about flats on
>axles:
>
>1. 3-speed hubs had flats on axles to prevent any possibility of the the
>sun
>gear turning when torqued.
>
>2. 3-speed hubs and other nutted hubs had flats on axles to enable single
>handed/tool opening and closing of the nuts.
> (This required a match between hub and dropout)
>
>3. Flats make it easy to work on the hub.
>
>
>Amir Avitzur
>R"G, Israel
>
>
>and ... 4. Karma .... just when you think you solved your flat tire
>problem,
>flats show up elsewhere.
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Sat, 05 Aug 2006 08:33:50 -0500
>From: Mark Stonich <mark@bikesmithdesign.com>
>To: Don Wilson <dcwilson3@yahoo.com>,
> Classic Rendezvous <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
>Subject: Re: [CR]Brazing and/or frame building Videos or DVDs?
>Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.0.20060805083321.04262368@bikesmithdesign.com>
>In-Reply-To: <20060805060855.54487.qmail@web52509.mail.yahoo.com>
>References: <8C88657DBBC6569-D8C-3374@FWM-D14.sysops.aol.com>
> <20060805060855.54487.qmail@web52509.mail.yahoo.com>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>Precedence: list
>Message: 3
>
>At 01:08 AM 8/5/2006, Don Wilson wrote:
> >Does anyone know of an instructional video or DVD
> >about: a) brazing; or b) frame building; or c) both?
>
>http://www.timpaterek.com/videos.htm
>
>Mark Stonich
> Minneapolis Minnesota
> http://bikesmithdesign.com
> http://mnhpva.org
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Sat, 5 Aug 2006 09:45:01 EDT
>From: Crumpy6204@aol.com
>To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
>Subject: [CR]Re: Classicrendezvous Digest, Vol 44, Issue 22 Lucas
>Cyclometer
>Message-ID: <57b.2d90079.3205fadd@aol.com>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>Precedence: list
>Message: 4
>
>Dont go over 19-20MPH this is the LAST thing I have to worry about at my
>age, I do have one on the Mercian that I had at LeCirque, (BEST BRIT BIKE
>DALE!!!!) First off I cant read the bloody thing its too far
>away,
>Second off I cant hear the cliking!! other riders around me complain about
>this! Then when I did get to check the milage, I found it was
>counting backwards!!! it gone over I gues and was rewinding!! So back
>to the 20
>or is it now 21st century and a new fangled computer BUT it does
>look
>good and adds a vintage touch to the bike, Cheers John Crump
>OldclickingonBrit, Parker, Co USA PS What does it do if you go over
>19-29mph Explode? with
>Lucas you could never know!
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Sat, 05 Aug 2006 11:08:23 -0400
>From: "Edward Albert" <Edward.H.Albert@hofstra.edu>
>To: <Crumpy6204@aol.com>, <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
>Subject: Re: [CR]Re: Classicrendezvous Digest, Vol 44, Issue 22 Lucas
> Cyclometer
>Message-ID: <s4d47c4f.057@GW15.hofstra.edu>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>Precedence: list
>Message: 5
>
>John,
> As I recall you were on the front on that ride and
>attacking.....somewhat over 20 miles per.....and not breathing hard.
>Edward Albert
>Chappaqua, NY
>
> >>> <Crumpy6204@aol.com> 08/05/06 9:45 AM >>>
>Dont go over 19-20MPH this is the LAST thing I have to worry about at my
>
>age, I do have one on the Mercian that I had at LeCirque, (BEST BRIT
>BIKE
>DALE!!!!) First off I cant read the bloody thing its too far
>away,
>Second off I cant hear the cliking!! other riders around me complain
>about
>this! Then when I did get to check the milage, I found it was
>counting backwards!!! it gone over I gues and was rewinding!! So
>back to the 20
>or is it now 21st century and a new fangled computer BUT it does
>look
>good and adds a vintage touch to the bike, Cheers John Crump
>OldclickingonBrit, Parker, Co USA PS What does it do if you go over
>19-29mph Explode? with
>Lucas you could never know!
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>
>
>
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Sat, 5 Aug 2006 12:54:55 EDT
>From: Nipponcomet@wmconnect.com
>To: johnb@oxford.net, classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
>Subject: Re: [CR]Belated Intro
>Message-ID: <307.3a6af200.3206275f@wmconnect.com>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>Precedence: list
>Message: 6
>
> john, i am brand new here but i don't believe i'm out of place to extend
>a
>welcome to you...as for what you can contribute, already your short bio has
>conjured up images of you as a young boy riding the english countryside on
>your
>fixed wheel bike, slick roads.....i can smell the rain and the trees. there
>is
>much talk here about the old bikes from the continent... and that is
>good...but americans of my age(58) really longing as young boys for their
>first
>lightweight often had that dreamed realised with an english 3 speed...they
>were
>lighter than the most common american quality bike, a schwinn, and had
>well
>thought out components, and they came w/ that seat bag w/ a booklet and
>that flat
>bar multiwrench....good lord, we were expected to work on our own bike!!!
>not
>one person reading here didn't think back on flipping their bars and
>shedding
>those fenders....and the gritty, black stripe up the back when rideing in
>the
>wet.....you have much to recollect here and i hope we hear plenty about
>what
>you lads were rideing and coveting across the pond...you gave us yanks the
>Dawes double blue and the Austin (healy) bug eyed sprite...so welcome back
>john...we'll all enjoy the recollections you care to share here...we're a
>stronger
>list now that you're back....charles flaherty in downtown baltimore
>maryland....
>PS: my fisrt lightweight was my brothers hand me down, a dutch Hartog w/ a
>Brampton 3 spd hub... i replaced a broken pawl spring in order to restore a
>second gear to working status, and got hooked for life. welcome
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Sat, 5 Aug 2006 13:19:11 EDT
>From: AVERYALLEN@aol.com
>To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
>Subject: [CR]1973 and 1974 Motobecane Grand Record Specifications
>Message-ID: <c24.3b1094.32062d0f@aol.com>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>Precedence: list
>Message: 7
>
>
>Bonjour Listers and Listees,
>Since this has been a topic of discussion lately, I am please to provide
>th
>e
>following Motobecane Grand Record Specification direct from the 1973 and
>1974 Catalogs.
>1973 Motobecane Grand Record Specifications
>Frame â Reynolds 531 double butted main tubes
>Lugs â Nervex Professional
>Fork â Tubular 531 with Campagnolo chrome tips
>Wheels â 27 x 1.25 Alloy rims gum wall high pressure or sew up tire
>s
>Hubs â High Flange Normandy Competition with quick release
>Rear Cluster â 14-26
>Derailleurs â Campagnolo Nuovo Record
>Crank Set â Stronglight Alloy Cotterless 40-52
>Pedals â Atom 700 Alloy
>Brakes â Weinmann Center-pull with quick release
>Handlebars â Alloy Maes bend (racing)
>Stem â Pivo Competition Delux Alloy
>Headset â Stronglight Competition
>Saddle â Brooks Professional leather with alloy seat post
>Extras (No Charge) â Toe clips and straps
>Weight = 25 lbs or 23 lbs with sew-ups
>1974 Motobecane Grand Record Specifications
>Weight = 24 lbs.
>Frame â Reynolds 531 double butted main tubes, Campagnolo tips
>Lugs â Nervex Professional or Prugnat Professional
>Fork â Reynolds 531, Campagnolo tips, chrome plated ends
>Headset â Stronglight Competition
>Handlebars â Nitto Racing alloy
>Stem â Nitto Racing alloy
>Brakes â Weinmann 999 De LUXE or Universal 61, Center-pull, quick
>release
>Derailleurs â Campagnolo Nuovo Record
>Rear Cluster â Atom 14-26 with Huret Spoke Protector
>Chain - Sedis
>Crank Set â T.A. Professional 42-52
>Pedals â Atom 700 Alloy
>Wheels â Super Champion Alloy, Clement Elvezia Tubular
>Hubs â Normandy Luxe Competition
>Saddle â Brooks Professional leather with alloy seat post
>Extras (No Charge) â Toe clips and straps
>I have the specifications for all Motobecane models (for the USA) between
>1973 and 1983. I was building a spreadsheet with all the data to share
>put
> it
>was lost in a previous computer crash. Someday I'll get around to it.
>David Allen
>Marietta, Georgia near Pollo Le Grande
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Sat, 5 Aug 2006 10:53:04 -0700 (PDT)
>From: Don Wilson <dcwilson3@yahoo.com>
>To: Classic Rendezvous <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
>Subject: [CR]Does brazing release toxic emissions?
>Message-ID: <20060805175305.38075.qmail@web52505.mail.yahoo.com>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
>Precedence: list
>Message: 8
>
>I read somewhere that brazing releases toxic
>emissions, not just from the torch combustion, but
>from the metals and flux being heated.
>
>1. Is this true?
>
>2. If yes to 1, then do framebuilders protect
>themselves from the toxic emissions?
>
>3. If yes to 2, how do they protect themselves?
>
>Don Wilson
>Los Olivos, CA USA
>
>
>
>
>D.C. Wilson dcwilson3@yahoo.com
>-----------------------------------------------------------
>Note: This message may contain confidential and/or privileged
>information. If you are not the addressee or authorized to
>receive this for the addressee, you must not use, copy, disclose or take
>any action based on this message or any information herein. If you have
>received this message in error, please advise the sender immediately by
>reply e-mail and delete this message. Thank you for your cooperation.
>-------------------------------------------------------------
>
>__________________________________________________
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>Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
>http://mail.yahoo.com
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Sat, 5 Aug 2006 19:52:58 +0200 (CEST)
>From: alex m <alexpianos@yahoo.fr>
>To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
>Subject: [CR]Rene Herse for sale
>Message-ID: <20060805175258.75532.qmail@web26606.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
>Precedence: list
>Message: 9
>
>I'm offering a chrome RH for sale price 5000 euros,
>absolute top of the range model with long filed down
>lugs and best parts, Rene Herse cranks/rings and stem,
>Mephisto bloc rims 700C RBN Jos SKF annular bearing BB
>but it does need rechroming. Photos :
>
>http://www.pianosromantiques.com/chrome-Rene-Herse-1963.html
>
>If you are not on my mailing list for RH Singer etc
>for sale and would like to be just send me a mail.
>
>Alexander March
>Bordeaux
>France
>
>alexpianos@yahoo.fr
>
>
>
>
>
>
>___________________________________________________________________________
>Découvrez un nouveau moyen de poser toutes vos questions quelque soit le
>sujet !
>Yahoo! Questions/Réponses pour partager vos connaissances, vos opinions et
>vos expériences.
>http://fr.answers.yahoo.com
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Sat, 5 Aug 2006 11:01:05 -0700 (PDT)
>From: Don Wilson <dcwilson3@yahoo.com>
>To: Classic Rendezvous <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
>Subject: Re: [CR]Rene Herse for sale:Q about the internal cable entry...
>Message-ID: <20060805180105.11310.qmail@web52514.mail.yahoo.com>
>In-Reply-To: <20060805175258.75532.qmail@web26606.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
>Precedence: list
>Message: 10
>
>Keen eyes look at the picture of this Herse showing
>the top tube where the brake cable enters the top tube
>for internal routing. Look how gobby the metal is
>around the entry port. Were Rene Herse's frame
>builders known for doing such sloppy work, or was this
>an after market modification? Otherwise quite a neat
>bike.
>
>Don Wilson
>Los Olivos, CA USA
>
>--- alex m <alexpianos@yahoo.fr> wrote:
>
> > I'm offering a chrome RH for sale price 5000 euros,
> > absolute top of the range model with long filed down
> > lugs and best parts, Rene Herse cranks/rings and
> > stem,
> > Mephisto bloc rims 700C RBN Jos SKF annular bearing
> > BB
> > but it does need rechroming. Photos :
> >
> >
>http://www.pianosromantiques.com/chrome-Rene-Herse-1963.html
> >
> > If you are not on my mailing list for RH Singer etc
> > for sale and would like to be just send me a mail.
> >
> > Alexander March
> > Bordeaux
> > France
> >
> > alexpianos@yahoo.fr
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>___________________________________________________________________________
> >
> > Découvrez un nouveau moyen de poser toutes vos
> > questions quelque soit le sujet !
> > Yahoo! Questions/Réponses pour partager vos
> > connaissances, vos opinions et vos expériences.
> > http://fr.answers.yahoo.com
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Classicrendezvous mailing list
> > Classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
> >
>http://www.bikelist.org/mailman/listinfo/classicrendezvous
> >
>
>
>D.C. Wilson dcwilson3@yahoo.com
>-----------------------------------------------------------
>Note: This message may contain confidential and/or privileged
>information. If you are not the addressee or authorized to
>receive this for the addressee, you must not use, copy, disclose or take
>any action based on this message or any information herein. If you have
>received this message in error, please advise the sender immediately by
>reply e-mail and delete this message. Thank you for your cooperation.
>-------------------------------------------------------------
>
>__________________________________________________
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>Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
>http://mail.yahoo.com
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Sat, 5 Aug 2006 11:31:33 -0700
>From: "Mark Bulgier" <Mark@bulgier.net>
>To: <oroboyz@aol.com>, <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
>Subject: RE: [CR]Re: KOF rules!
>Message-ID: <9327C3B25BD3C34A8DBC26145D88A90702D055@hippy.home.here>
>In-Reply-To: <8C88657DBBC6569-D8C-3374@FWM-D14.sysops.aol.com>
>Content-Type: text/plain;charset="US-ASCII"
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>Precedence: list
>Message: 11
>
>
>When DALE sez
> >
> > Look at this!
> >
> > http://www.popularmechanics.com/
> >
>
>...you LOOK dammit!
>
>
>Dale,
>
>You're always going on about rules! Rules for this, rules for that, KOF
>rules... What next?! ;)
>
>Seriously though, Cool article.
>
>I suppose some picky know-it-all is going to point out the incorrect
>photo captions, like where it says he's assembling the tubes in the jig
>before brazing, but he's actually aligning a frame after brazing. Or
>where it says he's applying silver flux and it's really brass flux.
>
>That wiley e-Richie, he probly told the poor magazine writer incorrect
>info on purpose, he likes to do that. What a kidder!
>
>The funniest one is where he says that, what builders with a milling
>machine don't know, is it "can't do the work for them". Dude, have you
>ever SEEN a milling machine? If it doesn't do the work for you, it's
>broken.
>
>OK I better add, for those who can't tell I'm kidding, that I like and
>respect Richie and have gotten my drool on his frames lotsa times, til
>he asked me to stop that. (Ha, I originally typed that I got my droll
>on his frames) (Also in fairness I should point out I'm liberally
>misquoting the article, for comic effect. C'mon, like you never do
>that? Please.)
>
>Once I raced Glenn Erickson, he filed a miter and I cut one on the
>milling machine at the same time. I think he might have actually beat
>me by a little (don't remember for sure) but I think we called it a tie
>because mine was a little more accurate.
>
>The Pop Mech article states Sachs joints are "hand-mitered so that each
>end fits perfectly". Damn I wish I knew how he does that. I used to
>get mine to within a millionth of an inch of perfect, but never achieved
>perfection. That's why Sachs makes the big bucks I guess.
>
>Of course only Chuck Norris can hand-miter with just his hands.
>
>Mark Bulgier
>Seattle WA USA
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Sat, 5 Aug 2006 11:49:35 -0700
>From: "Mark Bulgier" <Mark@bulgier.net>
>To: "Don Wilson" <dcwilson3@yahoo.com>,
> "Classic Rendezvous" <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
>Subject: RE: [CR]Rene Herse for sale:Q about the internal cable entry...
>Message-ID: <9327C3B25BD3C34A8DBC26145D88A90702D056@hippy.home.here>
>In-Reply-To: <20060805180105.11310.qmail@web52514.mail.yahoo.com>
>Content-Type: text/plain;charset="US-ASCII"
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>Precedence: list
>Message: 12
>
>
>Don Wilson asks:
>
> > Were Rene Herse's frame builders known for doing such sloppy
> > work [snip]?
> > http://www.pianosromantiques.com/
>
>Hmm, we looking at the same bike? Looks pretty dang nice to me.
>
>Sure, Peter Weigle could do it a little crisper today, but by the
>standards of its day, that Herse was just about the world's finest.
>
>Oops, did I just respond to a troll?
>
>Mark Bulgier
>Seattle WA USA
>------------------------------
>
>_______________________________________________
>Classicrendezvous mailing list
>Classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
>http://www.bikelist.org/mailman/listinfo/classicrendezvous
>
>
>End of Classicrendezvous Digest, Vol 44, Issue 23
>*************************************************
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