Re: [CR]Ebay 78 Jack Taylor tandem Fillet brazed/ ? for Joel M.

In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.0.20060829070158.01c52328@bikesmithdesign.com>
References: <3.0.6.32.20060828231232.008582e0@mailhost.oxford.net> <20060829034623.77735.qmail@web52510.mail.yahoo.com>
Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2006 06:15:32 -0700
To: Mark Stonich <mark@bikesmithdesign.com>
From: "joel metz" <magpie@blackbirdsf.org>
Subject: Re: [CR]Ebay 78 Jack Taylor tandem Fillet brazed/ ? for Joel M.
cc: Classic Rendezvous <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>

At 07:25 -0500 08.29.2006, Mark Stonich wrote:
>At 10:46 PM 8/28/2006, Don Wilson wrote:
>>I did not realize fillet brazed tandems were the norm
>>at JT because of oversized tubes. I've got a mid
>>seventies Gitane tandem that's lugged. Just assumed
>>most of the tubing, except for the bottom tube joining
>>the bottom bracket shells, were typical diameters in
>>most tandem brands. Hence, I assumed suitable lugs
>>would not be in short supply. Interesting.
>
>Don,
>The Gitane's were production bikes, all angles the same. A Taylor
>tandem might be any combination of sizes. Or a trike.
>
>Also, bronze welded frames are less expensive than lugged.
>Especially when the guy holding the torch is fast, and there is no
>finish work needed.
>
> Perhaps Joel can tell us what the price difference was between say
>a welded "Tourist" and a lugged one.
>
>BTW I thought "Super Tourist" referred to a lugged "Tourist" made
>after a certain date.
> Seems not to be the case according to
>http://www.blackbirdsf.org/taylor/serials_mod_tourist.html

bingo.

bronze-welded/fillet-brazed frames allow an amazing versatility when it comes to geometry, sizing, and tubing choice - and tandems to measure were one of the thing the taylors were known for. lugless building allowed *any* combination of pilot and stoker frame sizes, and allowed the taylors to use the custom-drawn oversize tandem tubing that reynolds made for them, rather than being limited by the frame sizes, angles, and tubing sizes mandated by the lugs available at the time.

tourist vs super tourist was a differentiation that only appeared ~1970. prior to that, tourists could be lugged or lugless. after the 70s, a super tourist was lugged, and a tourist was lugless, as far as catalogue models were concerned - however, most taylors were to measure, rather than strictly following the catalogue.

in the early 70s - a super tourist (lugged) cost about 10 pounds more than a tourist (lugless). by the late 80s, the difference was 25 GBP.

-joel -- joel metz : magpie@blackbirdsf.org : http://www.blackbirdsf.org/ bike messengers worldwide : ifbma : http://www.messengers.org/ magpie messenger collective http://www.magpiemessenger.com/
           portland, oregon ==
             i know what innocence looks like - and it wasn't there,
                                   after she got that bicycle...