Hi lists: I need information and photos of French Metropole bicycle, probable manufacture in the decade of 40. It possesss as joint, Huret exchanges, Menal rims 28" (sport alloy); LAM brakes; Idèale Saddle and Simplex Stronghlight Crancks. If possible to help, I am thankful. Kind Regards from Brazil Marcelo Afornali Curitiba - Paraná - Brazil http://www.bicicletasantigas.com.br
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> CR
>
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. top-tube cable routing
> 2. Re: Classifying lightweight road bike frames Racing/Touring is
> not (Chris Kulczycki)
> 3. WTB: Mavic starfish crank dustcaps (Nathan Cozzolino)
> 4. RE: top-tube cable routing (Edward Brooks)
> 5. Re: top-tube cable routing (ternst)
> 6. RE: Campagnolo Gran Sport cottered bottom bracket (Edward Brooks)
> 7. Re: Fontan Pau (ternst)
> 8. Re: Classicrendezvous Digest, Vol 47, Issue 37 OldBritBooksMags
> 4sail
> 9. 1934 Tour de France - Stage 16 (Brett Horton)
> 10. Fwd: Re: [CR]Fontan Pau (Arthur Link)
> 11. c. 1929/30 FONTAN BICYCLE OF PAU (TOUR DU FRANCE).
> (The Maaslands)
> 12. Re: Re: [CR]Fontan Pau (ternst)
> 13. Re: Classifying lightweight road bike frames Racing/Touring is
> (Douglas W Hack)
> 14. Some racers turned bike builders (The Maaslands)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2006 17:39:36 -0800 (GMT-08:00)
> From: chasds@mindspring.com
> To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
> Subject: [CR]top-tube cable routing
> Message-ID:
> <9251771.1163036376605.JavaMail.root@mswamui-chipeau.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit
> Precedence: list
> Reply-To: chasds@mindspring.com
> Message: 1
>
> I have a mid-1940s Gloria town-bike frame, and a mid-1950s Cinelli B that
> both have a very clean through-the-top-tube brake-cable routing. I expect
> this feature goes back a long way.
>
> Charles Andrews
> SoCal
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2006 17:46:24 -0800 (PST)
> From: Chris Kulczycki <chris@velo-orange.com>
> To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
> Subject: Re: [CR]Classifying lightweight road bike frames Racing/Touring
> is
> not
> Message-ID: <20061109014624.91099.qmail@web212.biz.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
> In-Reply-To: <MONKEYFOODskOuN9JVx0000380c@monkeyfood.nt.phred.org>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
> Precedence: list
> Message: 2
>
> If we're to classify bikes lets not forget pass hunters:
> http://velo-orange.blogspot.com/
>
> As for randonneurs, Jan Heine had a good description. Something along the
> lines of: a bike built for long distance riding that, because it carries
> little weight, can be built like a racing bike. Perhaps he'll chime in.
>
>
> Chris
> http://velo-orange.blogspot.com/
>
>
> Okay - I know I am re-inventing the wheel, but I'm hoping the resulting
> discussion will be productive by increasing the accuracy of what we call
> different types of road frames. No flaming required, this is the
> beginning of a discussion.
>
> Some old racing frames look more like newer sport touring frame, which
> makes classification difficult. I am thinking in terms of how I would use
> these older frames now, for my current riding on better pavement than they
> were designed for. I'm also more interested in the more utilitarian road
> frames than the specialized racing frames.
>
> Track racing frames (steep, high, short, horizontal rear facing dropouts)
> Time trial frames (?)
> Cyclo-cross frames (?)
>
> Criterium racing frames (75 plus head angle, high bottom bracket, very
> short wheelbase <98) bare clearance for sewups.
>
> Road Racing frames (73 or 74 head angles, moderate height bottom bracket,
> 99-100cm) sewups/700c <25mm)
>
> Sport frames (usually called sport touring) (73 head angle, moderate
> height bb, 101-102cm) clearance for at least 700x28mm tires not designed
> for loads in racks good frame for club riding or centuries
>
> All rounder (usually called sport touring) ( 72 or 73 head angle,
> moderate height bb, 102-104cm, clearance for fenders with 45-55mm brake
> reach, longer chainstays, clearance for 700x32mm or 27x1 1/4)
>
> I have seen Randonneur frames described, but I am unfamiliar with them.
>
> Loaded touring frames (72 head angles, lower BB, 104-107cm, very long
> chainstays, clearance for fenders, cantilever or disc brakes, brazeons for
> racks, etc. 700 or 27 clearance for tires up to 42mm)
>
> Hybrid frames (road geometry with 26 inch wheels, cantilevers, and huge
> tire clearance) these might overlap all rounders, or loaded touring.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Chris Kulczycki
> Velo Orange
> 109 Colonial Avenue
> Annapolis, MD 21401
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2006 01:55:05 +0000
> From: "Nathan Cozzolino" <cozzolino77@hotmail.com>
> To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
> Subject: [CR]WTB: Mavic starfish crank dustcaps
> Message-ID: <BAY104-F28AD2ED4C9E300B9B179CAA8F00@phx.gbl>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Precedence: list
> Message: 3
>
> I don't know why anyone would,but if you have any dustcaps that would fit
> that crank lying around i'd like to buy 'em.
>
> Thanks,
> Nathan Cozzolino
> SF, CA
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> All-in-one security and maintenance for your PC. Get a free 90-day trial!
> http://clk.atdmt.com/
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2006 20:09:38 -0600
> From: "Edward Brooks" <ebrooks@eriwine.com>
> To: <chasds@mindspring.com>, <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
> Subject: RE: [CR]top-tube cable routing
> Message-ID: <MONKEYFOODhGWraIrYD00003818@monkeyfood.nt.phred.org>
> In-Reply-To:
> <9251771.1163036376605.JavaMail.root@mswamui-chipeau.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain;charset="us-ascii"
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> Precedence: list
> Reply-To: ebrooks@eriwine.com
> Message: 4
>
> I owned (wish I still had it!) a 1950's Vittoria frame that was very
> nicely
> built and included top-tube brake cable routing. It sounds like several of
> the better builders at that time period utilized this technique. I am
> often
> amazed at how many construction techniques and technologies for frames and
> components are considered new and cutting edge during a given time period
> but when you do a little research you find that it's all been done before.
> Top-tube cable routing, precision bearing and cassette alloy hubs are just
> a
> few examples that come to mind.
>
> Edward Robert Brooks
> Managing Director
> Edward Roberts International
> Auctioneers of the Fine and Rare
> 1262 West Winwood Drive
> Lake Forest, Illinois 60045
> Phone- 847.295.8696
> Facsimile- 847.295.8697
> Email- ebrooks@eriwine.com
> Website- http://www.eriwine.com
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: classicrendezvous-bounces@bikelist.org
> [mailto:classicrendezvous-bounces@bikelist.org] On Behalf Of
> chasds@mindspring.com
> Sent: Wednesday, November 08, 2006 7:40 PM
> To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
> Subject: [CR]top-tube cable routing
>
> I have a mid-1940s Gloria town-bike frame, and a mid-1950s Cinelli B that
> both have a very clean through-the-top-tube brake-cable routing. I expect
> this feature goes back a long way.
>
> Charles Andrews
> SoCal
> _______________________________________________
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2006 18:11:46 -0800
> From: "ternst" <ternst1@cox.net>
> To: <chasds@mindspring.com>, <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
> Subject: Re: [CR]top-tube cable routing
> Message-ID: <00c901c703a4$68a8a0b0$0300a8c0@D8XCLL51>
> References:
> <9251771.1163036376605.JavaMail.root@mswamui-chipeau.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain;format=flowed;charset="UTF-8";reply-type=original
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> Precedence: list
> Message: 5
>
> The old timers didn't exactly fall off the turnip wagon.
> Ted Ernst
> Palos Estates
> CA USA
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <chasds@mindspring.com>
> To: <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, November 08, 2006 5:39 PM
> Subject: [CR]top-tube cable routing
>
>
>>I have a mid-1940s Gloria town-bike frame, and a mid-1950s Cinelli B that
>>both have a very clean through-the-top-tube brake-cable routing. I expect
>>this feature goes back a long way.
>>
>> Charles Andrews
>> SoCal
>> _______________________________________________
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2006 20:13:52 -0600
> From: "Edward Brooks" <ebrooks@eriwine.com>
> To: "'Ted E. Baer'" <wickedsky@sbcglobal.net>
> Cc: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
> Subject: RE: [CR]Campagnolo Gran Sport cottered bottom bracket
> Message-ID: <MONKEYFOOD5yO2pASEB0000381a@monkeyfood.nt.phred.org>
> In-Reply-To: <20061109004053.19567.qmail@web80603.mail.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain;charset="us-ascii"
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> Precedence: list
> Reply-To: ebrooks@eriwine.com
> Message: 6
>
> Thanks Ted! It is somewhat mystifying to me why Campagnolo would elect to
> begin production of this in 1960 when the demand for something like this
> had
> to be in decline given the options for alloy cotterless chainsets from not
> only Campagnolo but other manufacturers. I would love to know what there
> reasoning was!
> Best regards,
> Edward Robert Brooks
> Managing Director
> Edward Roberts International
> Auctioneers of the Fine and Rare
> 1262 West Winwood Drive
> Lake Forest, Illinois 60045
> Phone- 847.295.8696
> Facsimile- 847.295.8697
> Email- ebrooks@eriwine.com
> Website- http://www.eriwine.com
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ted E. Baer [mailto:wickedsky@sbcglobal.net]
> Sent: Wednesday, November 08, 2006 6:41 PM
> To: ebrooks@eriwine.com
> Subject: Re: [CR]Campagnolo Gran Sport cottered bottom bracket
>
>
> Hi Edward,
>
> I am not a Campagnolo expert, but here is what I
> found:
>
> Campagnolo catalog #14 (year 1960?), page 25:
> "MOVIMENTO CENTRALE GRAN SPORT CAMPAGNOLO"
> Entire unit is ref #: 1047
> Fixed cup is #745
> Adjustable cup is #746
> Lock Ring is #747
> Balls are #22 sfere speciali (size 1/4")
>
> I think the cup reference numbers are wrong because
> the one that just sold on ebay had the old chromed
> steel cups (probably 1957-1958).
>
> Ted E. Baer
> Palo Alto, CA
>
>
> --- Edward Brooks <ebrooks@eriwine.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> As many of you no doubt noted a Campagnolo Gran
>> Sport cottered bottom
>> bracket just sold on Ebay (item # 290045366509). I
>> have not been able to
>> find a reference to this item in the Campagnolo time
>> line and was hoping
>> someone on the list would know when, and for how
>> long, this item was made by
>> Campagnolo. Many thanks!
>> Edward Robert Brooks
>> Managing Director
>> Edward Roberts International
>> Auctioneers of the Fine and Rare
>> 1262 West Winwood Drive
>> Lake Forest, Illinois 60045
>> Phone- 847.295.8696
>> Facsimile- 847.295.8697
>> Email- ebrooks@eriwine.com
>> Website- http://www.eriwine.com
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2006 18:16:59 -0800
> From: "ternst" <ternst1@cox.net>
> To: <artlink@flash.net>,
> "classic rendezvous" <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
> Subject: Re: [CR]Fontan Pau
> Message-ID: <00e501c703a5$234dfff0$0300a8c0@D8XCLL51>
> References: <20061109011644.74811.qmail@web34101.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain;format=flowed;charset="iso-8859-1";
> reply-type=original
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> Precedence: list
> Message: 7
>
> That's because they were a-FORDING something else.
> Ted Ernst
> Palos Verdes Estates
> CA USA
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Arthur Link" <artlink@flash.net>
> To: "classic rendezvous" <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, November 08, 2006 5:16 PM
> Subject: [CR]Fontan Pau
>
>
>> Jerry Moos asked if there was any previous pro cyclist who marketed his
>> own brand of bike while still racing.i.e. before retirement. That would
>> be
>> Arthur Zimmerman of New Jersey an American champion in the 1890's and who
>> also wowed the Brits and rode for Raleigh in the 1890's. He was involved
>> with the Zimmerman Manufacturing Co. of Freehold,N.J. (1895-1898) and
>> raced until 1897 and retired to run a hotel. The bike boom was rapidly
>> deflating due to oversupply and price cutting. Art Link, in sunny mid
>> 80's
>> F , San Antonio,Texas,USA
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2006 21:28:32 EST
> From: Crumpy6204@aol.com
> To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
> Subject: [CR]Re: Classicrendezvous Digest, Vol 47, Issue 37
> OldBritBooksMags
> 4sail
> Message-ID: <bf6.94957f5.3283ec50@aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> Precedence: list
> Message: 8
>
> Well my parts inventory has depleted so now to start with the books, Mage
> Etc. First CTC Gazette April 1929 YES 1929 older than me, Lots adds BSA
> Sports
> Model 7 quid! Raleighs, Brooks sadles for 1929 B17Champ. B66 and
> B18Champ,
> this mag is falling apart due to age but still plenty of GOOD reading
> $25.00.
> CTC Gaz, March 1946, lots good things to read, good Cond.
> $20.00 CYCLING Weekly Mags, THE BIBLE for Vintage collectors,
> loaded
> with adds, photos, articles, results, LOTS of GOOD reading for the winter
> months, Lots of 10 for $50.00 Ebay you would pay $10-20 each if you
> could find
> them. 10 mags starting with 3/1937 to 9/1945,$50.00 10 mags
> starting with 1/1947 to 3/1950 $50.00 (Check the results I am in some of
> them!)
> 10 Mags starting with 3/1950 to 7/1950 $50.00 10 Mags straing
> with
> 7/1950 to 11/1950 $50.00 10 Mags staring with 12/1950 to 3/1951
> $50.00 10 Mags startng with 3/1951 to 6/1951 $50.00 7 mags
> starting
> with 6/7/1951(My 18th DBay) to 9/1951 PLUS Isleofman 6/25 1952 8/1953
> 8/1954
> 7/1955, $50.00 All above are PLUS postage, these are NOT in order by
> weeks, issues are missing, Email me if you need the dates of the issues,
> all
> issues are in good condition, NO parts cut out or missing, I HAVE READ
> ALL OF
> THEM FRONT TO BACK, lots of memories for me, hate to parts with them, BUT
> they
> have to go, Cheers John Crump OldliketoreadBrit, Parker Co,. I DO take
> PainPal.
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2006 18:46:33 -0800 (PST)
> From: Brett Horton <bretthorton@thehortoncollection.com>
> To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
> Subject: [CR]1934 Tour de France - Stage 16
> Message-ID: <20061109024633.56099.qmail@web33512.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
> Precedence: list
> Reply-To: bretthorton@thehortoncollection.com
> Message: 9
>
> The thread about the 1929 TdF stage into Luchon reminded me of a really
> neat piece I have from the 1934 TdF stage into Luchon: a original chromo
> litho that is autographed by 19 people, including the French National
> Team. Other signatures include cyclists and athletic stars of the day.
>
> I decided to take the time to dredge it up out of a crate and when I
> finally found it, I was instantly taken back to the day I bought it
> several years ago. This is the type of item that should be shared, not
> buried in a crate. I've done a couple of down and dirty web pages where
> you can see the litho. Click on the main image to see a larger version and
> be sure to consider visiting the linked pages that show the detail of the
> signatures as well as some insight into that years race.
>
> http://www.thehortoncollection.com/
>
> Brett Horton
> San Francisco, California USA
>
>
> .
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2006 18:47:10 -0800 (PST)
> From: Arthur Link <artlink@flash.net>
> To: classic rendezvous <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
> Subject: Fwd: Re: [CR]Fontan Pau
> Message-ID: <20061109024710.82457.qmail@web34110.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
> Precedence: list
> Reply-To: artlink@flash.net
> Message: 10
>
> Not so,Ted. The Ford Model T was several years later. Bike oversupply
> and price wars in the late 1890's caused prices to drop fro the $150 range
> to under $40. This lead tto the American Bicycle Consortium, which many
> manufacturers refused to join. Many simply went belly up. There was such a
> glut of perfectly adequate used bikes that the new bikes with minor
> technical advances found fewer and fewer takers. Used bike salesmen
> enjoyed the same shoddy reputation then as used car salesmen do now,using
> every guile to move the inventory. The next big assault on the industry
> came with the motorization of the bicycle. Hendee a Us National champ on
> the ordinary, manufactured the Indian bicycle,which quickly morphed into
> the Indian Motorcycle. Daimler, Overland, Pope and others made high priced
> cars inaccessible to the masses. Henry Ford and the Model T in the early
> 1900's put the nail into the bicycle for most Americans,as everyday
> transport, but not for the rest of the emerging
> industrial world even to this day. Art Link,San Antonio,Texas,USA
>
> ternst <ternst1@cox.net> wrote: From: "ternst" <ternst1@cox.net>
> To: <artlink@flash.net>, "classic rendezvous"
> <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
> Subject: Re: [CR]Fontan Pau
> Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2006 18:16:59 -0800
>
> That's because they were a-FORDING something else.
> Ted Ernst
> Palos Verdes Estates
> CA USA
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Arthur Link"
> To: "classic rendezvous"
> Sent: Wednesday, November 08, 2006 5:16 PM
> Subject: [CR]Fontan Pau
>
>
>> Jerry Moos asked if there was any previous pro cyclist who marketed his
>> own brand of bike while still racing.i.e. before retirement. That would
>> be
>> Arthur Zimmerman of New Jersey an American champion in the 1890's and who
>> also wowed the Brits and rode for Raleigh in the 1890's. He was involved
>> with the Zimmerman Manufacturing Co. of Freehold,N.J. (1895-1898) and
>> raced until 1897 and retired to run a hotel. The bike boom was rapidly
>> deflating due to oversupply and price cutting. Art Link, in sunny mid
>> 80's
>> F , San Antonio,Texas,USA
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>
>
>
>
>
> The Columns on Alamo
> Welcome to our bed and breakfast in San Antonio, Texas. Come fiesta with
> us!
> We offer off-street parking, and the downtown trolley stops just a 1/2
> block away!
> All rooms have a private bath, TV and telephone.
> Wireless Internet Access available in all rooms (EXCEPT the Rockhouse
> Cottage)
> Please contact us if you have any questions, thanks!
> (210)271-3245 · (800)233-3364 · ArtLink@ColumnsSanAntonio.com
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2006 21:56:33 -0500
> From: "The Maaslands" <TheMaaslands@comcast.net>
> To: "CR" <Classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
> Subject: [CR]c. 1929/30 FONTAN BICYCLE OF PAU (TOUR DU FRANCE).
> Message-ID: <0b4601c703aa$abcdbfa0$0200a8c0@HPLAPTOP>
> Content-Type: text/plain;charset="Windows-1252"
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Precedence: list
> Message: 11
>
> Jan appears to be confusing a number of different stories when he wrote:
>
> "What happened was the Fontan blew up badly in the mountains, but his
> team controlled the race tightly. Fontan was barely hanging on, but
> nobody attacked, and so he kept the jersey. It helped that Alcyon was
> the biggest team."
>
> I see that Jan has realized one of his errors and admits to mixing up De
> Waele and Fontan. Fontan obviously had nothing to do with Alcyon. This
> does not however make the statement about the size of the Alcyon team be
> any more correct. Alcyon was also not the biggest team in the 1929 Tour,
> as the 1929 race was not strictly a race by teams anymore. As mentioned
> in another post, the race had been divided into two categories: A and
> amateurs. Even in 1928, when the Alcyon team placed three riders on the
> podium, the team was made up of only 6 racers, whereas there were 2
> other teams with more riders. Furthermore, the fact that Alcyon had what
> one expected to be the strongest team on paper was not necessarily true
> in 1929. If you went by the previous year's results, De Waele was only
> the Alcyon team's third strongest rider and had the 'team' been so
> strong, there was no need to wait for him (he had placed third overall
> the year behind two of his teammates, both of which were riding in the
> race described by Jan.)
>
> "This was the last straw that persuaded Henri Desgrange to get rid of
> trade teams, and use national teams starting in 1930. The idea was
> that while a bunch of French racers would give the Alcyon guys some
> slack, you could count on the Italians to use the opportunity if it
> presented itself."
>
> This theory does not stand up to logic, as Alcyon had always been an
> international team. In every year of its existence there were always at
> least three countries represented on the team (including Italians).
>
> "Add that the 1930s were a time of Nationalist fervor, and the
> National teams duking it out made for a great success. And certainly,
> the 1930 Tour was a lot more exciting than the previous ones. (Which
> is why I selected that for VBQ, and not the 1929 edition.)"
>
> What qualifies as exciting? In the 1929 tour, there were more individual
> stage winners than in 1930. There were also many more changes in the
> yellow jersey holder in 1929 than 1930. In fact in 1930, there were only
> three riders to hold the yellow jersey: Pélissier after the first
> stage, then Guerra after stages 2 through 9 and then Leducq until the
> end. In 1929, a total of 8 riders who wore the yellow jersey. In 1929,
> the final winner took one stage whereas in 1930, the eventual winner
> took two stages. Given the means of communication of the time, I doubt
> that your average 'spectator' would have said that the 1930 edition was
> more exciting.
>
> Steven Maasland
> Moorestown, NJ
> USA
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2006 19:05:56 -0800
> From: "ternst" <ternst1@cox.net>
> To: <artlink@flash.net>,
> "classic rendezvous" <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
> Subject: Re: Re: [CR]Fontan Pau
> Message-ID: <010301c703ab$f9d8bb90$0300a8c0@D8XCLL51>
> References: <20061109024710.82457.qmail@web34110.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain;format=flowed;charset="iso-8859-1";
> reply-type=original
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
> Precedence: list
> Message: 12
>
> Yeah, I'm a couple of years off.
> I remembered more of the timeline once I posted.
> So much for being impetuous.
> The old man Langher who raced in the 1890's told us that about 1910 +/-
> kids
> would throw small sticks and/or stones at him and other racers on their
> bikes yelling, "Look at the funny guy on a bike!".
> That's also the time frame that he told us seeing scrap iron fields of
> bikes
> being plowed under because no one wanted them and they didn't bother to
> melt
> them down.
> (sic)Transit Gloria.
> Ted Ernst
> Palos Verdes Estates
> CA USA
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Arthur Link" <artlink@flash.net>
> To: "classic rendezvous" <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, November 08, 2006 6:47 PM
> Subject: Fwd: Re: [CR]Fontan Pau
>
>
>> Not so,Ted. The Ford Model T was several years later. Bike oversupply
>> and price wars in the late 1890's caused prices to drop fro the $150
>> range
>> to under $40. This lead tto the American Bicycle Consortium, which many
>> manufacturers refused to join. Many simply went belly up. There was such
>> a
>> glut of perfectly adequate used bikes that the new bikes with minor
>> technical advances found fewer and fewer takers. Used bike salesmen
>> enjoyed the same shoddy reputation then as used car salesmen do now,using
>> every guile to move the inventory. The next big assault on the industry
>> came with the motorization of the bicycle. Hendee a Us National champ on
>> the ordinary, manufactured the Indian bicycle,which quickly morphed into
>> the Indian Motorcycle. Daimler, Overland, Pope and others made high
>> priced
>> cars inaccessible to the masses. Henry Ford and the Model T in the early
>> 1900's put the nail into the bicycle for most Americans,as everyday
>> transport, but not for the rest of the emerging
>> industrial world even to this day. Art Link,San Antonio,Texas,USA
>>
>> ternst <ternst1@cox.net> wrote: From: "ternst" <ternst1@cox.net>
>> To: <artlink@flash.net>, "classic rendezvous"
>> <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
>> Subject: Re: [CR]Fontan Pau
>> Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2006 18:16:59 -0800
>>
>> That's because they were a-FORDING something else.
>> Ted Ernst
>> Palos Verdes Estates
>> CA USA
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Arthur Link"
>> To: "classic rendezvous"
>> Sent: Wednesday, November 08, 2006 5:16 PM
>> Subject: [CR]Fontan Pau
>>
>>
>>> Jerry Moos asked if there was any previous pro cyclist who marketed his
>>> own brand of bike while still racing.i.e. before retirement. That would
>>> be
>>> Arthur Zimmerman of New Jersey an American champion in the 1890's and
>>> who
>>> also wowed the Brits and rode for Raleigh in the 1890's. He was involved
>>> with the Zimmerman Manufacturing Co. of Freehold,N.J. (1895-1898) and
>>> raced until 1897 and retired to run a hotel. The bike boom was rapidly
>>> deflating due to oversupply and price cutting. Art Link, in sunny mid
>>> 80's
>>> F , San Antonio,Texas,USA
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> The Columns on Alamo
>> Welcome to our bed and breakfast in San Antonio, Texas. Come fiesta with
>> us!
>> We offer off-street parking, and the downtown trolley stops just a 1/2
>> block away!
>> All rooms have a private bath, TV and telephone.
>> Wireless Internet Access available in all rooms (EXCEPT the Rockhouse
>> Cottage)
>> Please contact us if you have any questions, thanks!
>> (210)271-3245 · (800)233-3364 · ArtLink@ColumnsSanAntonio.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2006 19:08:32 -0800 (PST)
> From: Douglas W Hack <dhack@sbcglobal.net>
> To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
> Subject: Re: [CR]Classifying lightweight road bike frames Racing/Touring
> is
> Message-ID: <20061109030832.65586.qmail@web81811.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
> Precedence: list
> Message: 13
>
> I would like to thank Chris Kulczycki for bringing Pass Hunting to my
> attention. It makes me want to grab a map and start counting the passes
> I've accumulated during the years. Your website has lots of other
> interesting things also.
>
> Unless I missed it (I only read English), the bicycles used for the pass
> hunting activity are not specified or particularly unique. The idea is to
> collect the passes, which could be done on a touring bike, a mountain
> bike, or anything with low enough gears to get it up the road. If I was
> chosing a bike specifically for pass hunting, I would want it to be light,
> have lots of gears, and maybe have shorter chainstays than a full loaded
> tourer. In other words it might be an all rounder or sport frame with
> wide gears.
>
> Another activity done with bicycles is Century riding. Although I have
> firm opinions on how to equip a frame for Century Riding, I would choose
> the frame from my proposed Road Racing, Sport, or All Rounder frame
> categories. Maybe a Randonneur fits within one of these categories also.
>
> I'm hoping that we can define frame specifications for categories without
> getting into details of build components any more than necessary. Wheel
> size and tire width is strongly related to the frame specifications and
> the intended use. Flat bars or drop bars could be put on most any frame.
> Single, Double and triple cranks are pretty interchangeable across frames.
> Obviously a fixed gear needs a horizontal dropout and maybe this is
> important in a loaded touring frame also. Location of the shifters is
> relatively independent of the intended usage for the frame, although it
> used to be that racers used down tube shifters and tourists used barends -
> that has all changed. At any rate, most frames don't limit your choice of
> shifters.
>
> I don't know about cyclocross frames, but I suspect that they have some
> distinguishing specifications that separate them.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2006 22:17:47 -0500
> From: "The Maaslands" <TheMaaslands@comcast.net>
> To: "CR" <Classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
> Subject: [CR]Some racers turned bike builders
> Message-ID: <0b4d01c703ad$a1d36600$0200a8c0@HPLAPTOP>
> Content-Type: text/plain;charset="Windows-1252"
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Precedence: list
> Message: 14
>
> There are many instances of racers also building bikes. I believe there
> are examples of builders who turned to racing, racer/builders who
> handled both tasks concurrently and racers who turned into builders. I
> believe the last category is the most common.
>
> A very quick sampling from Italy where the ex-racer was intimately
> involved with production is: Basso, Benotto, Cimatti, Cinelli, Dei,
> Fondriest, Gerbi, Guerra, Masi, Moser, Olmo, Pinarello... To the best of
> my knowledge, none of these bike brands were "rented" names as stated by
> Jan in an earlier post.
>
> Perhaps I am oversimplifying, but it would appear that the lower the
> quality the bike carrying a former pro's name, the greater the
> likelihood that the name is "rented".
>
> Steven Maasland
> Moorestown, NJ
> USA
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
>
>
> End of Classicrendezvous Digest, Vol 47, Issue 38
> *************************************************