To my fellow classic bicycle and cycling enthusiasts
OK, OK, OK! Stop the madness! I am the guy who bought the infamous $7K Hetchins ($7101.00 to be exact).This is my first email to the group so I hope that I do not break any protocol. First I am not fabulously wealthy! I have earned every penny that I have by working very hard since the age of 13. I am a serious cyclist (wellover 200 miles a week) and ride with some of the best cyclist in the country on my outrageously expensive Carbon/Ti/Campy machine (I AM ALWAYS DEAD LAST!). But my real passion is not cycling! It is collecting, Contemporary Art, Fine Wine, Classic Fountain Pens (primarily Waterman) and most importantly Noteworthy Bicycles. I have more that my wife would like and less than I should have (my kids just think I am nuts but they don\u2019t count). I do not sell the things that I collect I lovingly restore them to there natural beauty or sometimes leave them to patina and age with grace. With the exception of a one off Ernesto Colnago time trial bike that hangs in the stairwell in my house, I take pleasure in riding them all with great care and pride, I believe that beautiful things need to be seen and shared. Regarding my opinion on collecting, ebay has for good or bad changed the world (not unlike CR members who scoop each other on occasion) we are all united by the internet and the brave new world of international communication and trade. I used to buy classic waterman sterling silver pens for $10-$50 it was all I could afford now they are $500 to $10000! I rarely get one. When I want to buy a piece for my collection instead of going to flee markets or springing for a flight and hotel room to attend a fair or function and just maybe getting lucky. I have to count on word of mouth, great sites like CR or go to ebay and hope when one comes up that some crazy rich guy doesn't nab it last second (with his fancy computer program) because he has to have something cool! Or just maybe lucky collector overpaying to fill in some rare piece to complete his collection. Now regarding CR, WJ and a multitude of other Ladies and Gentlemen that I have met over the years on line, at shows, and most importantly on the road, I have nothing but the greatest respect for those who share their knowledge and their personal collections. Collecting and protecting any piece of history whether it be the first Nanotube bound carbon LW frame, a perfectly restored 1964 Hetchins Magnum Opus curly (Hopefully with the assistance of fellow CR members)or a 2006 KOF rendition of a classic. Those of you that know me or ride with me also know that I ride all of my bikes, my favorite ride being a fixed gear Surly Steamroller (an inexpensive steel frame, 39-14 front brake only for the street).I hope this answers any curiosity that many of you may have about motivation. I also hope that I have not offended any of you. I learned a long time ago never to make any judgment without intimate knowledge. You never know the depth or strength of any rider on the road by his or her looks (boy did I learn that lesson) or the intention of any collector by a single purchase! Just a final observation, please don't quit CR or banish a member over an ignorant or dissenting opinion. The nature of debate, sharing of knowledge and experience are a great foundation of learning for all of us.
Respectfully,
Mike Paselk Corona del Mar CA
-----Original Message----- From: classicrendezvous-bounces@bikelist.org [mailto:classicrendezvous-bounces@bikelist.org] On Behalf Of classicrendezvous-request@bikelist.org Sent: Monday, November 13, 2006 6:10 PM To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: Classicrendezvous Digest, Vol 47, Issue 62
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Today's Topics:
1. CR-friendly bike shops in Nashville (Crocoll, Christopher W) 2. Diamond Jim Brady, and UC Davis, and an idea for you (Dan Kehew) 3. Some KOF Photos and a few for sale on Serotta sale list (cnighbor) 4. Dating of Pogliaghi (Edward Brooks) 5. Re: Peter Brown's Wooljersey albums/ Langsett 6. Re: Finally here! Tektro 55-73 mm Reach Dual-Pivot Calipers (alex wetmore) 7. Re: NY Times story on (slightly) pricey bicycles (Michael Schmidt) 8. Re: NY Times story on (slightly) pricey bicycles (Jerome & Elizabeth Moos) 9. Was: Another nice Hetchins; Now: "Reality" in Vintage Bike Collecting (John Barron) 10. Re: NY Times story on (slightly) pricey bicycles (John Thompson) 11. Re: NY Times story on (slightly) pricey bicycles (Chuck Schmidt) 12. Re: NY Times story on (slightly) pricey bicycles (Fred Rafael Rednor) 13. NY Times story on pricey bicycles - God Bless America (Raymond Dobbins) 14. Re: NY Times story on (slightly) pricey bicycles (Jerome & Elizabeth Moos)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 17:24:50 -0500 From: "Crocoll, Christopher W" <CrocollCW@state.gov> To: "'classicrendezvous@bikelist.org'" <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org> Subject: [CR]CR-friendly bike shops in Nashville Message-ID: <9C41CEE95C6BD211A14500805F57C34D1BF78B4F@FSIEXCH1SNTSA> Content-Type: text/plain MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 1
Dear Listmembers,
Can anyone tell me whether there are any CR-friendly bike shops worth a visit in Nashville, TN? Thank you very much.
Christopher Crocoll
Reston, VA
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 14:36:30 -0800
From: "Dan Kehew" <dan.kehew@gmail.com>
To: artlink@columnssanantonio.com
Cc: classic rendezvous <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
Subject: [CR]Diamond Jim Brady, and UC Davis, and an idea for you
Message-ID:
<8c14bd140611131436q3aa8b233ge8754b28ab92f76e@mail.gmail.com>
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> At the turn of the Century (1900) Diamond Jim Brady gave his 200 lb.
sweetheart,
> Lillian Russell, a gold plated bike w. mother of pearl handlebars, and
diamonds,
> rubies, sapphires and emeralds mounted on the spokes. Reputed to have
cost
> $10,000 in the real money of the day. She rode it every Sunday in a
white riding
> suit and Tyrolian hat. The prurient rich were ever so. Money triumphs
over good
> taste and/or function. Where is that bike now? Art Link,San
Antonio,TX,USA
I do believe it's in storage at the University of California, Davis -- heavily stripped, unfortunately. Actually, it's a tandem, with the ladies' tubing in front and steering controlled from the rear. There are still mother-of-pearl panels on the headtube. Some filagree remains. While it's not available for public viewing just yet, at least a couple of list members (beyond Robert St. Cyr and I) have had "previews." Oh, Brett Horton, do you remember seeing this particular bike? Jack Romans?
The tandem we're talking about is among about 70 bikes in a collection owned by UC Davis, mostly pre-1900 and thereby out of timeline for CR. That includes one Draisine that's probably 75 years out of timeline -- no kidding. Still, there's the odd Dursley-Pederson, and this tandem, and a six-man pacing tandem that qualify for CR discussion (the chain on that one: MONSTER).
Actually, this functions in some way to introduce my response to an earlier string about what one should ultimately do with one's bikes: Consider UC Davis. As I understand it, Frank Berto promised to donate his prodigeous archive of documents to UCD's Shields Library Special Collections. The current collection of bikes is going to be the basis for a museum here in Davis under the auspices of UCD, supported by Berto's documentation. As some of you already know, Robert St. Cyr and I (among others) are looking to supplement the collection with 20th century bikes of all sorts.
So keep us in mind, okay? If you're interested at all, get in touch with me and I'll keep you updated on our organization, the plans for the museum, and how you might make a donation of hardware, documents, or even funds -- all of which should soon be eligible for some tax consideration. Ultimately, it should make for a pretty nice record of cycling history. ------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 14:52:53 -0800 From: "cnighbor" <cnighbor@pacbell.net> To: <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org> Subject: [CR]Some KOF Photos and a few for sale on Serotta sale list Message-ID: <001101c70776$75597200$71bffea9@CharlesNighbor> Content-Type: text/plain;charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 3
This is for sale or just was Call number below
http://www.serotta.com/
fenders and long reach brakes (pretty sure). Dennis and I bought these as a pair. He never built his up. But this is the frame that will properly fit those beautiful, odd thin Berthoud carbon fenders and the Berthoud front aluminum carrier. Bill Laine, the gracious proprietor of wallbike.com, can help with the build. It would be a shame to see this bike cobbled together when it can turn out an elegant constructeur-style
build where everything can be made to fit just so (see my Toei or a
Singer for an example of the projected aesthetic). Anyway, it's
filet-brazed, the paint is nicely done (but nothing like JB, which is
the gold standard, imho), and the it's a rather larger frame, something
like a 61cm, tall even for me, otherwise I would try to buy it."
http://www.serotta.com/
http://new.photos.yahoo.com/
there is two richard sachs a singer a serotta a cooper etc
Enjoy and i have nothing to do with either call 248 625 7001 for Masi #V FS 56cm or Masi GC 72 59cm for sale Ask for Doug
charles nighbor walnut creek, ca
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 17:18:53 -0600 From: "Edward Brooks" <ebrooks@eriwine.com> To: <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org> Subject: [CR]Dating of Pogliaghi Message-ID: <MONKEYFOODXE2sCRBHZ00003f13@monkeyfood.nt.phred.org> Content-Type: text/plain;charset="US-ASCII" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Reply-To: ebrooks@eriwine.com Message: 4
I am hoping someone on this list can help me with more accurately dating a Poghliaghi track frame I purchased from Matteo Brandi with the help of Steven Maasland a little while back. Mike Barry just finished restoring the frame and based on the images he forwarded did an excellent job. Can't wait to receive it! Best guess at this point is circa 1960. The steerer tube is stamped 6851 and the front upper portion of the head tube just beneath the head lug is stamped Pogliaghi Italcorse in small letters. The bottom bracket is stamped 33 in one place on the bottom bracket and 11 in another. The frame originally had holes in the head tube for a head badge and I received a nice reproduction head badge from Matteo along with some original decals when he sent the frame although I believe the decals are actually probably from the mid-1970's. The lugs are similar to a Nervex pattern (they may be Nervex for all I know) and for the most part look like the lugs on Jim Spracher's white Pogliaghi (frame number 7609) road frame pictured on the CR site, although the lugs on my frame are not drilled out a la the frame on CR and my frame has a more ornate seat lug. I don't think my frame has any numbers or letters stamped on the seat lug such as I have seen on many other Pogliaghis but I may be mistaken and will have to verify that when I receive the frame back. I don't currently have any images posted of this frame but hope to do so (along with several other bikes) at some point in the near future. Meanwhile, I would be happy to forward the images Mike sent me to anyone who is interested or might be able to help with the dating. Thanks in advance for any insights or education. Many thanks,
Edward Robert Brooks Managing Director Edward Roberts International Auctioneers of the Fine and Rare 1262 West Winwood Drive Lake Forest, Illinois 60045 Phone- 847.295.8696 Facsimile- 847.295.8697 Email- ebrooks@eriwine.com Website- http://www.eriwine.com
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 18:27:09 -0500 From: oroboyz@aol.com To: joeking@fastmail.fm Cc: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: Re: [CR]Peter Brown's Wooljersey albums/ Langsett Message-ID: <8C8D5925F960B91-C2C-9D0@WEBMAIL-MB02.sysops.aol.com> In-Reply-To: <1163445650.26919.275710803@webmail.messagingengine.com> References: <005c01c7050e$82edc4d0$89ca6851@nonefpfvwek4mv> <8C8D4DAEE89F880-F3C-EE40@webmail-da12.sysops.aol.com> <1163445650.26919.275710803@webmail.messagingengine.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 5
Joe wrote about Langsett:
<< ....Real stonkers.>>
Oh what a shame!
What exactly "stonk" about them?
(this is a joke I am attempting to make, albeit poorly)
Dale Brown Greensboro, North Carolina USA
-----Original Message----- From: joeking@fastmail.fm To: oroboyz@aol.com Cc: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Sent: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 2:20 PM Subject: Re: [CR]Peter Brown's Wooljersey albums/ Langsett
Dale, Sheffield Langsett one of the most famous British lightweight manufactures. Started in the early 1900's by I think the Smiths. The shop is still trading today. The late 40's and 50's models have a very distinctive seat stay wrap over and rear ornate brake bridge. Their Pro model was widely used by Leaguer's and raced in the Tour of Britain. Real stonkers. Best wishes Joe. Croeso Cymru Joe King Nr. Maenaddwyn Ynys Mon Wales
-- http://www.fastmail.fm - Same, same, but differentâ\u20ac¦
________________________________________________________________________ Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and security t ools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from across the web, fr ee AOL Mail and more.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 15:50:49 -0800 (PST) From: alex wetmore <alex@phred.org> To: boyd <boyd@cs.unca.edu> Cc: TOURING <touring@phred.org> Cc: Classicrendezvous <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org> Cc: BOB List <internet-bob@bikelist.org> Cc: Sheldon Brown <CaptBike@sheldonbrown.com> Subject: [CR]Re: Finally here! Tektro 55-73 mm Reach Dual-Pivot Calipers Message-ID: <20061113154440.F6834@phred.org> In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0611131829510.19432@candler.cs.unca.edu> References: <p06240824c17e8fb57bf5@[10.0.1.14]> <Pine.LNX.4.64.0611131829510.19432@candler.cs.unca.edu> Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 6
On Mon, 13 Nov 2006, boyd wrote:
> On Mon, 13 Nov 2006, Sheldon Brown wrote:
>> Tektro has been teasing us with pictures of these for a loooong
>> time, but now they have arrived, and they were worth the wait!
>>
>> http://sheldonbrown.com/
>
> So, could I replace cantis with those brakes on my Cannondale? The
> tires are 700x38 and I have SKS fenders. It seem like they might be
> long enough, but are they wide enough to clear the (45mm?) fender.
Yes. To keep the same mechanical advantage you need to scale up
the whole brake. There are pictures of various calipers side by
side in this blog entry:
http://blogs.phred.org/
The cantis will probably work better. I have a lot of experience with long reach dual pivot sidepulls, but haven't installed this particular brake yet. The dual pivot with a reach of much over 60mm tends to be more flexible and thus doesn't stop as well as a cantilever. They are simpler to setup and people like them for that reason.
Making the caliper long also requires making the arms thicker to resist bending over a large distance. Brakes rarely do this. With simple (probably non-machined) designs they are limited by how thick the arm can be. They can make the arm thicker and recessed in the area for the pad mounting bolt, but this doesn't work with some bolt designs and is pretty uncommon.
Just to be clear I think 47-57mm reach calipers are great (but the maximum 30mm tire (measured) with fenders is limiting on a touring bike). I don't like 57mm+ reach calipers. Different people have different definitions of the word "long".
alex ------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 18:51:51 -0500 From: Michael Schmidt <mdschmidt@patmedia.net> To: Ken Bensinger <kenbensinger@gmail.com> Cc: CLASSIC RENDEZVOUS <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org> Subject: Re: [CR]NY Times story on (slightly) pricey bicycles Message-ID: <C17E6F47.145C%mdschmidt@patmedia.net> In-Reply-To: <ef3b06240611131324r32f24db8ycc7935b9a3be8274@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain;charset="US-ASCII" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 7
Ken, you are first to out this article. Imagine what kind of nut spends that kind of money on a bike no less. Geesh! Fiscally irresponsible.
And loving it!
Mike Schmidt Stirling, NJ USA
On 11/13/06 4:24 PM, "Ken Bensinger" <kenbensinger@gmail.com> wrote:
> All,
>
> I'm surprised this didn't come up earlier (if it did, I missed it). A
story
> from last week's New York Times answers the question about what type
of fine
> spirits to be drinking while getting fitted for a $23,000 bike.
Somehow I
> get the feeling that none of these guys could even change out a flat
tire,
> much less appreciate the performance advantages of something like
titanium
> or $5,000 wheels.
>
>
http://www.nytimes.com/
>
ac09ea&ex=1164085200&adxnnl=1&emc=eta1&adxnnlx=1163445357-xRYfGSk
iWv9SsW2H1m29
> 4w
>
> Anyhow, enjoy.
>
> Ken Bensinger
> Brooklyn, NY
>
>
> _______________________________________________
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 16:53:47 -0800 (PST) From: Jerome & Elizabeth Moos <jerrymoos@sbcglobal.net> To: Ken Bensinger <kenbensinger@gmail.com>, classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: Re: [CR]NY Times story on (slightly) pricey bicycles Message-ID: <20061114005347.9777.qmail@web82214.mail.mud.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <ef3b06240611131324r32f24db8ycc7935b9a3be8274@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: list Message: 8
You just reminded me why I hate much of the "modern" bike scene. One comforting thought is that I don't think anyone will ever sell a $23,000 bike here in a small town in West Texas. Or $2,300. Most people here would consider a $230 bike extravagant.
Regards,
Jerry Moos Big Spring, small town, West Texas
Ken Bensinger <kenbensinger@gmail.com> wrote: All,
I'm surprised this didn't come up earlier (if it did, I missed it). A story from last week's New York Times answers the question about what type of fine spirits to be drinking while getting fitted for a $23,000 bike. Somehow I get the feeling that none of these guys could even change out a flat tire, much less appreciate the performance advantages of something like titanium or $5,000 wheels.
http://www.nytimes.com/
Anyhow, enjoy.
Ken Bensinger Brooklyn, NY
_______________________________________________
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 19:06:32 -0600 From: "John Barron" <jb@velostuf.com> To: <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org> Subject: [CR]Was: Another nice Hetchins; Now: "Reality" in Vintage Bike Collecting Message-ID: <002601c70789$1fe8e860$6601a8c0@velostuf> Content-Type: text/plain;charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 9
Steve-
You may want to doubt the "reality" of the recent $7K+ Hetchins auction, but let me assure you that the reality *I* know is that some "real" collectors are showing their willingness to pay what it takes to but top-quality bikes and parts. By the way, do you know the person who bought that Hetchins? My guess is that if you did, you would be more respectful about his purchase decision.
Sadly or gladly, prices continue to go higher. I have been buying and selling vintage racing bikes and parts for more than 13 years and I have watched interest and prices increase. In the last 2 years there has been a dizzying number of new names on both the CR list and eBay. I want to give these people the benefit of the doubt and say that they are not idiots- they probably worked hard for their money, and they spend it carefully. (It's implied that people who spend more than you would are not in touch with reality).
Your reality is not everyone's reality. In my opinion, (and the buyer's opinion) the super-neat bikes and parts that come up for sale lately, are often-times undervalued. I've been prudent about the bikes that I have acquired for my collection. I didn't buy them to make money. BUT, I could easily quadruple my money if I sold them today. My guess is that there are dozens of other collectors on this list who would say the exact same thing.
I've accepted the fact that interest in these bikes is growing for the same reason that we got interested in them. As we share *our* passion and knowledge with others, *their* passion grows. As demand for these bikes grows, so does price. It's happened with lots of other collectibles in the past, and it will happen with all kinds of collectibles in the future.
I'm not saying that you or anyone has to be happy about it, but I wish you wouldn't disrespect the folks who spend the money to buy the bikes that they really want. I just spent $3,500 to buy a bike that others might call a piece of junk. I won't share my excitement about this bike with the CR list for fear of being told, (in so many words) that I am not in touch with reality.
John Barron
Minneapolis Minnesota
Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 15:24:40 +0000
From: Steve Maas <bikestuff@nonlintec.com>
To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
Subject: [CR]Another nice Hetchins
Message-ID: <45588E38.3020101@nonlintec.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Precedence: list
Message: 15
For those of you still reeling from the $7K Hetchins, and in need of
some ballasting by reality: Ebay item 160048179834
Superspecial or possibly a Nulli Secundus. Seems to have been subjected
to a low-class respray, which is now pretty beat up. Starting bid seems
a bit high, considering its condition. Still, someone could have a lot
of fun turning this into a very pretty bike. Tempting, as it's arguably
within my range of acceptable sizes, I'm only about sixty miles from the
seller this week, and I'm allowed one more piece of luggage for the trip
home...
Steve Maas
(Reporting from)
Hitchin, Herts., UK
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 19:19:21 -0600 From: John Thompson <johndthompson@gmail.com> To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: Re: [CR]NY Times story on (slightly) pricey bicycles Message-ID: <45591999.1040907@new.rr.com> In-Reply-To: <20061114005347.9777.qmail@web82214.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <20061114005347.9777.qmail@web82214.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Reply-To: John Thompson <JohnThompson@new.rr.com> Message: 10
Jerome & Elizabeth Moos wrote:
> You just reminded me why I hate much of the "modern" bike scene. One
> comforting thought is that I don't think anyone will ever sell a
> $23,000 bike here in a small town in West Texas. Or $2,300. Most
> people here would consider a $230 bike extravagant.
Reminds me of why I haven't gotten a new bike in over 15 years.
Two $10,000 "custom" bikes for someone who barely knows how to ride? That's not "floridly insane" as the author suggests -- that's floridly ostentatious.
-- John Thompson (john@os2.dhs.org) Appleton WI USA ------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 18:00:05 -0800 From: Chuck Schmidt <chuckschmidt@earthlink.net> To: CR RENDEZVOUS <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org> Subject: Re: [CR]NY Times story on (slightly) pricey bicycles Message-ID: <D839137B-9751-4FAB-8481-AF6A9368F66E@earthlink.net> In-Reply-To: <45591999.1040907@new.rr.com> References: <20061114005347.9777.qmail@web82214.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <45591999.1040907@new.rr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 11
Comments to this thread remind me of why a lot of the original guys on the list have left... a lot of negativity about other people's choices that doesn't happen to match the people posting.
Sad.
Chuck Schmidt South Pasadena, Southern California United States of America http://www.velo-retro.com (reprints, t-shirts & timelines)
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 18:01:48 -0800 (PST) From: Fred Rafael Rednor <fred_rednor@yahoo.com> To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: [CR]Re: NY Times story on (slightly) pricey bicycles Message-ID: <567775.82728.qm@web30613.mail.mud.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20061114005347.9777.qmail@web82214.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: list Message: 12
I wouldn't buy one of these new, super expensive bicycles, but you need to consider that many of the bicycles loved by members of this list were once considered unnecessarily ostentatios and expensive. You could actually say the same thing about a fair number of KOF bicycles with ultra-fancy lug work.
Also, there seems to be some sentiment that none of these
bicycles will be considered classic in 30 years. That's
debatable - but there really is no way to predict which ones
will achieve that status. Anyway, why all the rancor towards
the buyers of these bikes. I often see people driving to the
office at 55mph in Ferraris, Porshes and even Astin-Martins.
Clearly the drivers rarely - if ever - go faster than I do in a
Subaru. But they don't seem to engender the same ire that has
been expressed towards the owners of these bicycles. Is owning
a pair of $10,000 bicycles any more rediculous that owning 20
$1000 bicycles? Is it a crime to own a replica of Eddie
Merckx's hour record bike if you can only ride 20 miles in an
hour?
Stay cool my friends,
Fred Rednor - Arlington, Virginia (USA)
> You just reminded me why I hate much of the "modern" bike
> scene. One comforting thought is that I don't think anyone
> will ever sell a $23,000 bike here in a small town in West
> Texas. Or $2,300. Most people here would consider a $230
> bike extravagant.
>
> Regards,
>
> Jerry Moos
> Big Spring, small town, West Texas
>
>
>
>
> Ken Bensinger <kenbensinger@gmail.com> wrote:
> All,
>
> I'm surprised this didn't come up earlier (if it did, I
> missed it). A story
> from last week's New York Times answers the question about
> what type of fine
> spirits to be drinking while getting fitted for a $23,000
> bike. Somehow I
> get the feeling that none of these guys could even change out
> a flat tire,
> much less appreciate the performance advantages of something
> like titanium
> or $5,000 wheels.
>
>
http://www.nytimes.com/
>
> Anyhow, enjoy.
>
> Ken Bensinger
> Brooklyn, NY
_________________________________________________________________________
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Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 18:02:16 -0800 (PST) From: Raymond Dobbins <raydobbins2003@yahoo.com> To: Jerome & Elizabeth Moos <jerrymoos@sbcglobal.net>, Ken Bensinger <kenbensinger@gmail.com>, classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: [CR]NY Times story on pricey bicycles - God Bless America Message-ID: <156503.44226.qm@web60423.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20061114005347.9777.qmail@web82214.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: list Message: 13
Jerry, I'm sure you own many bikes that cost you far more than $230, and of the $230 type of bike, I believe you have purchased and still own quite a few. So by your definition, you must be one of West Texas' most extravagant characters!
It baffles me why it would bother you or anybody else, especially on this list, that someone spends a lot of money on a custom bicycle, to the point of "hating" the modern bike scene. It seems to me that this trend in spending will certainly trickle down to the benefit of the KOF builders, who need people to buy their product in order to for their businesses to survive. I hope that for every one person who buys one of those $10K to $23K bikes, there are two or more who order $4K to $6K bikes from KOF builders.
So I say God bless America where it's OK to make a ton of money and buy a $23k bike. Or two $10K bikes (that actually get ridden, in the case of the lady in the story). Or several $2K to $4K vintage lightweight bikes that I choose not to ride but look at everyday instead.
Ray Dobbins Miami Florida America been bery bery good to me.
Jerome & Elizabeth Moos <jerrymoos@sbcglobal.net> wrote: You just reminded me why I hate much of the "modern" bike scene. One comforting thought is that I don't think anyone will ever sell a $23,000 bike here in a small town in West Texas. Or $2,300. Most people here would consider a $230 bike extravagant.
Regards,
Jerry Moos Big Spring, small town, West Texas
Ken Bensinger wrote: All,
I'm surprised this didn't come up earlier (if it did, I missed it). A story from last week's New York Times answers the question about what type of fine spirits to be drinking while getting fitted for a $23,000 bike. Somehow I get the feeling that none of these guys could even change out a flat tire, much less appreciate the performance advantages of something like titanium or $5,000 wheels.
http://www.nytimes.com/
Anyhow, enjoy.
Ken Bensinger Brooklyn, NY
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Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 18:16:27 -0800 (PST) From: Jerome & Elizabeth Moos <jerrymoos@sbcglobal.net> To: John Thompson <JohnThompson@new.rr.com>, classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: Re: [CR]NY Times story on (slightly) pricey bicycles Message-ID: <20061114021627.24776.qmail@web82201.mail.mud.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <45591999.1040907@new.rr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: list Message: 14
Well, the newest bikes I have are a new Bates and an Arthur Caygill Artisan, both custom ordered new in the last 5 years. But both are very much KOF frames built with classic components. The most "modern" bikes I have are a pair of 1997 Bianchi TSX/UL's, celeste for me and midnight blue for my wife, bought when Bianchi was clearing out these, the last lugged steel frames they ever built. One was from a local Bianchi dealer LBS (no longer in business), the other mail order from Circle Cycle in SF (Do they still exist?). Mine is built with C-Record, hers with circa 1998 Campy Chorus. This Chorus gruppo was ordered new from Bob Lickton and is the most modern components I have ever dealt with. I think the frames were each $400-$500 new, and the Chorus gruppo was around $1000 including wheels custom built by Lickton's. So if you throw it bars, stem, tires, bottles, cages, etc., maybe my wife's Bianchi was all of $1700 brand new. I don't see any new off-the-peg bikes today I would pay more than that for, let alone $23,000. Now, a custom made Sachs or Baylis or Fattic or Weigle or Gordon, etc. frame would be about $1000 more than that entire bike, and that I could see paying, except one is usually talking a year or two or three wait. Just cannot see paying $23,000 or even $10,000 for what is stiil just an off-the-peg bike, not even if you get free Courvoisier, Shiraz and cappucino. I'd rather order a custom Weigle, buy my own bottle of Courvoisier, and pocket $7500 in change.
Regards,
Jerry Moos Big Spring, West Texas
John Thompson <johndthompson@gmail.com> wrote:
Jerome & Elizabeth Moos wrote:
> You just reminded me why I hate much of the "modern" bike scene. One
> comforting thought is that I don't think anyone will ever sell a
> $23,000 bike here in a small town in West Texas. Or $2,300. Most
> people here would consider a $230 bike extravagant.
Reminds me of why I haven't gotten a new bike in over 15 years.
Two $10,000 "custom" bikes for someone who barely knows how to ride? That's not "floridly insane" as the author suggests -- that's floridly ostentatious.
-- John Thompson (john@os2.dhs.org) Appleton WI USA _______________________________________________
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End of Classicrendezvous Digest, Vol 47, Issue 62 *************************************************