Re: [CR]Re: Bespoke

(Example: Racing:Beryl Burton)

From: "Joe King" <joeking@fastmail.fm>
To: "Fred Rafael Rednor" <fred_rednor@yahoo.com>, classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
References: <20061214155434.91670.qmail@web30608.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [CR]Re: Bespoke
In-Reply-To: <20061214155434.91670.qmail@web30608.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2006 23:43:33 +0000


Fred, Think your right. The wonderful thing about Norris's frames is that they are really truly worthy of the name of Bespoke. The word when used in its traditional form means craftsman made by a skilled artisan to a customers specification. Norris's stuff most certainly encompasses these virtues ans is a very apt name for these super quality frames he made, only wish I had purchased one in the 1980's. Have only ever seen one advertised and they wanted a fortune for it. Perhaps one day I will be lucky. Best wishes Joe K wales.

On Thu, 14 Dec 2006 07:54:34 -0800 (PST), "Fred Rafael Rednor" <fred_rednor@yahoo.com> said:
> I don't think Norris claims to have invented the term. I think
> he merely decided to call his company Bespoke (with an upper
> case "B") to denote that ther were no off teh shelf/peg frames
> available.
>
> While this might cause some confusion, I don't think it
> bprevents anyone from saying their firm offers bespoke (lower
> case "b") frames. For example, the printing shop down the
> streetfrom my house is called Custom Printing. That doesn't
> prevent other printers from claiming to offer "custom
> printing."
>
> Granted, when you put the term in a title (in which case it's
> appropriate to capitalize it no matter what the context) it can
> cause some extra confusion.
>
> To bring this back to the context of our list, how much
> pertinence does this sort of thing have if you're purchasing an
> old frame made to someone else's measurements and requirements?
> Of course, if those are the measurements of a famous racer -
> and it was actually his bike - perhaps it's a differnt story.
>
> But such is life.
> Fred Rednor - Arlington, Virginia (USA)
>
> --- Joe King <joeking@fastmail.fm> wrote:
>
> > Bespoke comes from the word Bespoken its origins are:
> > 'Bespoke' is actually a
> > term which dates from the 17th century, when tailors held the
> > full lengths of cloth in their premises.
> >
> > When a customer chose a length of material, it was said to
> > have “been
> > spoken for”. Hence a tailor who makes your clothes
> > individually, to your
> > specific personal requirements, is called "bespoke". This is
> > unlike
> > “made-to-measure”, which simply uses a basic, pre-existing
> > template
> > pattern, which is then adjusted to roughly your individual
> > measurements.
> >
> > It then got passed on through the various trades to any
> > craftsman that
> > made one off things to personal customers specifications.
> >
> > Norris is way off the beam on this one, Bespoke has been
> > about for 400
> > years or more so where he gets the idea that long before it
> > became
> > trendy I do
> > not know. It's a very common usage word here in the United
> > Kingdom.
> > Just tap in Bespoke in UK Yellow Pages and you will get loads
> > of hits
> > with companies using it as their name.
> >
> > All the famous London lightweight frame buiders would either
> > refer to
> > their stock frames as off the peg or their specials as
> > bespoke made.
> >
> > Have even heard them say in Somerset in the 1960's when you
> > fancied a
> > girl at a local dance that she is bespoken for or abbreviated
> > to bespoke
> > in other words she has got a fellow and is courting,
> > chatting, walking
> > out with or quite simply spoken for.
> >
> > Best wishes Joe.
> > Croeso Cymru Joe King Nr. Maenaddwyn Ynys Mon Wales
> >
> > --
> > http://www.fastmail.fm - A fast, anti-spam email service.
> >
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Croeso Cymru Joe King Nr. Maenaddwyn Ynys Mon Wales

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