Re: [CR]link to marginally on-topic video clip

(Example: Framebuilding:Restoration)

Date: Thu, 9 Feb 2006 07:38:47 -0800 (PST)
From: "Tom Dalton" <tom_s_dalton@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [CR]link to marginally on-topic video clip
To: Ben Kamenjas <bici_pimp@mac.com>
In-Reply-To: <126855bf3e345d26c61237b80e9d5538@mac.com>
cc: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org

I told myself I wouldn’t get distracted today, but I think I need to respond to this one.

On 09/02/2006, at 1:10 PM, Tom Dalton of Bethlehem, PA wrote:
>
> Many of these "professional cyclists" show up to the T-town swap
> each October and drive up the street value of track parts. The steet
> value of most controlled substances probably drops throughout the
> Lehigh Valley at the same time. I mean, look at the video, they MUST
> be on drugs.
>

Ben Kamenjas <bici_pimp@mac.com> wrote: Ummmm ..... 6 cats going bezerk in NYC makes you pass judgement on so many. Shame really, many of the type of cyclists to whom you refer really love the same old bikes and parts as we do. Their enthusiasm and knowledge for stuff that is older than their short years deserves a nod and some willingness from the cognoscenti to pass the torch and steer their admiration of classic bikes. To my mind all people into classic bikes are brothers (and sisters) and all cyclists are family. Is it not a good thing to share what is beautiful?

Ben: Ummmmmmmmmmmm… no, I have somewhat more experience interacting with couriers from which to form my generalizations. That said, generalizations are rarely constructive, often hurtful and usually get taken the wrong way. It shouldn’t surprise me that some people were offended by my comments on this video, but be assured that they were made with without contempt. Do you seriously think that I’d be upset because couriers are supporting a market for track gear at the T-town swap? First of all, I have almost no interest in track gear. It’s cool, just not my thing. Secondly, I have only been the beneficiary of the surprising prices that couriers are willing to pay for cool stuff. I think it’s great that some guy in his early 20’s wants to buy a set of Con Dentes off me, especially when he’s willing to pay an Ebay-like price. Letting the market dictate the price, is A-okay with me. As for the drugs comment, well, I actually think that is a kinder analysis than some of the alternatives. Let’s not kid ourselves. I know from firsthand experience, the nature of which I can’t detail without self-incrimination, that couriers are where bike culture and “recreational” drug culture collide. Are all couriers druggies? No. Am I a sanctimonious “just-say-no” zealot? Absolutely not. Being defensive about associations between couriers and drugs is equivalent to being defensive about associations between Deadheads and drugs or hip-hop and violence. It’s part of the scene, and if a portion of the community abstains, it’s still part of the scene. “That the bikes will outlast generations is all that matters. They are not yours, or mine or theirs ... we all just along for the ride.” Actually, ridden in earnest, the bikes will not outlast generations. Yet, heaven help the CR guy who hangs bikes on walls instead of riding them. I don’t really put much stock in this “above mere ownership” when it comes to bikes, or at least the vast majority of bikes. In fact, that’s part of the reason that I couldn’t care less if some guy from NYC buys up some nice pista gear and rides the life out of it in a manner that was never intended. Now, why anyone would select that equipment for that application, other than out of bravado, is beyond me. "I shall never judge anyone here irrespective of how unfashionably they are dressed at Le Cirque, nor for their propensity to take candid photo's showing how their Brooks saddle matches their choice of decking timber colour." Shall never judge. That’s pretty grandiose, don’t you think? Setting aside my clothing and choice of deck stain, what if you saw a video of me doing big smoky burnouts around my neighborhood in an F250 while my neighbor’s kids are playing in the street? I would hope that you would look at that and judge it as reckless and self-indulgent behavior. Whether those riders in the video were couriers, tourists, or div 1 pros, they were imposing on other people in a significant way. They were unnecessarily exposing a lot of other people and other people’s property to potential harm. They were exposing themselves to harm that would very likely cost someone’s insurance company a LOT of money, money that we all ultimately pay. They were adding to the stress level of everyone trying to move through traffic. And what of the motorist who takes out one of these guys? Even if it was not his fault, his day is certainly ruined. He’s going to suffer through the trauma of watching someone come to harm and the ordeal of the aftermath in the legal and insurance systems. If the motorist has a shred of humanity, he’s going to feel some guilt, no matter where legal fault lies. Though knowing what these guys are deliberately choosing to do, I would certainly try not to feel too bad if one came to harm against the side of my car, assuming I’m not at fault. In fact, no matter what came of him, I’d hold him accountable for the slightest scratch on my fender. All arguments that “these guys know what they are doing,” fall on my deaf ears. You can tell me that guys like this only come to harm when someone else screws up, but that’s BS. Guys like this get hurt all the time and I don’t care if it is usually, or even always, the other guy’s fault. It’s truly infantile to expect that everyone else will be looking out for some yahoo moving trough traffic between cars 20 mph faster than everyone else. Even if such behavior was supported by the traffic code, and I doubt it is, and even if the only way he can get hurt is if someone else violates the code, it’s still expecting too much for too little up side. What’s the up side? Bragging rights? Infinitesimal improvements to courier productivity? Cops can engage in high speed chases within the letter of they law, but they've learned by experince that the laws of physics dictate that it is rarely worth the risk. It’s not like these guys are hunting squirrels in Central Park with high powered rifles, but in terms of being oblivious to collateral impacts, these guys are headed in that direction. What they are doing isn’t enough to make me say that they’re major a-holes, but I do think they’re being just a bit egocentric. I’ll stand by that judgment. Tom Dalton Bethlehem, PA

Ben Kamenjas <bici_pimp@mac.com> wrote: On 09/02/2006, at 1:10 PM, Tom Dalton of Bethlehem, PA wrote:
>
> Many of these "professional cyclists" show up to the T-town swap
> each October and drive up the street value of track parts. The steet
> value of most controlled substances probably drops throughout the
> Lehigh Valley at the same time. I mean, look at the video, they MUST
> be on drugs.
>

Ummmm ..... 6 cats going bezerk in NYC makes you pass judgement on so many. Shame really, many of the type of cyclists to whom you refer really love the same old bikes and parts as we do. Their enthusiasm and knowledge for stuff that is older than their short years deserves a nod and some willingness from the cognoscenti to pass the torch and steer their admiration of classic bikes. To my mind all people into classic bikes are brothers (and sisters) and all cyclists are family. Is it not a good thing to share what is beautiful?

And you from Bethlehem? Jesus ....

BTW, how much NOS track stuff should I dump on eBay just to invalidate your righteous sounding claim.

Tom, I love you and all that but please tell me what you wrote was with tongue firmly in cheek. I don't take offense but I imagine that there might be some here on this list who may think you are perhaps one toke over the line yourself ;)

C'mon ..... some young cats at swap meets are feeding on the passion and fondness of > your < memories - is that not special? That the bikes will outlast generations is all that matters. They are not yours, or mine or theirs ... we all just along for the ride.

I chose to write to the list in this matter instead of privately so that all here can feel that we are of the same mind and united in the same passion rather than being marginalized for one's appearance or life choices or culture that differs between us. I shall never judge anyone here irrespective of how unfashionably they are dressed at Le Cirque, nor for their propensity to take candid photo's showing how their Brooks saddle matches their choice of decking timber colour. I don't even question why many of you seem unlikely to have even ridden a bicycle in the last few years. Not the least, I write with compassion and humanity because I am sure there are many here with 56cm frames and unwed daughters (or sons, if you have a truly astounding collection in the attic).

Peace & Love .... Daddy-o

ciao,

Ben Kamenjas, who BTW loved nothing more than riding around NYC on a fixed gear Gios with my Voigtlander and 15mm lens in hand. ..... now just surfin' and livin' fly in Bondi Beach, Australia.

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