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> CR
>
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Blue (or thick) grease (Reid Fisher)
> 2. Re: re: riv lugs, now portholes and perceptions of what is
> beauty (Don Wilson)
> 3. Iscaselle Saddles (Al Van Varick)
> 4. Rivendell, Barber Pole (with warning).
> 5. Re: Barber Pole <Re: [CR]Looking for pics of Doug Fattic frames>
> (Raymond Dobbins)
> 6. Calling Ted Ernst (Steve Leitgen)
> 7. Team Champion info wanted (Kevin D Salyer)
> 8. Re: Re: KOF (Ray Homiski) (Steven Willis)
> 9. Re: Team Champion info wanted (Jerome & Elizabeth Moos)
> 10. Pic of the Day - 58 Years Ago (Aldo Ross)
> 11. Campy Pulleys (Amir Avitzur)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2006 20:04:51 +0000
> From: "Reid Fisher" <reidfisher@hotmail.com>
> To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
> Subject: [CR]Blue (or thick) grease
> Message-ID: <BAY101-F3462E925369ACA14811BF0D6D80@phx.gbl>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
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>
> You mentioned cables, and I'd steer away from thick grease getting into
> cable housings. I used too thick a grease in my old VW throttle cable
> housing -- worked fine in the Nevada summer, but in the winter the
throttle
> return spring wasn't strong enough to pull the cable back, and cleaning
the
> housing out enough to free things up was one of those projects I don't
need
> more of. I'm sure you'll get strong opinions on types of grease, but my
> hunch is that in the grand scheme, bikes are low tech and not finicky. Do
> they still make white Lubriplate?
>
> Reid Fisher
> San Martin, California
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2006 12:05:44 -0800 (PST)
> From: Don Wilson <dcwilson3@yahoo.com>
> To: Classic Rendezvous <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
> Subject: Re: [CR]re: riv lugs, now portholes and perceptions of what is
> beauty
> Message-ID: <20060321200544.68452.qmail@web52502.mail.yahoo.com>
> In-Reply-To: <42198a04f4063024ce1d514d8c08af4a@htc.net>
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>
> First, aesthetics, along with logic and math, are
> rational tools for pursuit of elegance (the not to
> much, not to little, just the right amount notion) and
> beauty (what pleases reason and senses elegantly).
>
> Second, a skillful designer uses aesthetic formalisms,
> heuristics and intuition the way a carpenter uses his
> tool kit. He chooses the right tool and uses it
> skillfully to achieve the desired effect.
>
> Third, everyone designing and building things is
> making use of aesthetics, consciously, or
> unconsciously. Those who are considered exceptional at
> designing and building things tend to have an
> extensive knowledge of what works and what doesn't
> work aesthetically, whether they have acquired the
> knowledge systematically, or by trial and error, or
> some combination, and whether or not they are willing
> to reveal what they know, or choose instead play the
> curmudgeon for self protection.
>
> Fourth, you can tell the people who thoroughly
> understand what they are doing and what they are
> trying to achieve, because their work oozes cohesion
> and wholeness, as well as excellence in the
> particulars. Lesser talents can get some elements to
> work and not others. As Kevin Costner playing Eliot
> Ness said in The Untouchables, "Many things are half
> the battle, gentlemen, but we are interested in the
> whole battle."
>
> Fifth, whether you find a design elegantly beautiful
> or not depends significantly on the extent of
> commitment to, interest in and education about (self
> training or formal) elegance and beauty that you
> possess. This is not snobbishness. This just makes
> sense, if you think about it. If you don't give a hoot
> about baseball, it is very difficult to tell who has
> the more elegant and beautiful swing--Ted Williams or
> Mickey Mantle, Barry Bonds or Frank Thomas. Everyone
> creates elegant beauty and awkward ugliness in what
> they do, but some folks create elegant beauty more
> frequently and systematically than other folks
> (because they know what they're doing) and some folks
> perceive it more often than others (because they
> understand more about what they are looking at).
> Beauty is a collaboration between producer and
> consumer.
>
> Sixth, aesthetics, and also math and logic, have some
> capacity for formal expression (mathematical or
> logical notation), some capacity for heuristic
> expression (verbal rules of thumb), and some capacity
> for intuitive expression (you can just feel what is
> right, but can't formalize it or put it in a heuristic
> that explains it). The latter is the most prone to
> being wrong imho, and those relying on the latter are
> the most prone to deluding themselves. Many persons
> without much aesthetic knowledge naively assume that
> most of design is attributable to "inspiration" and
> "brilliant talent" and "serendiptity." Apparently
> quite wrong. The few good designers I have access to
> suggest that most good designers are relentless
> perfectionists (who have to learn to limit that aspect
> of themselves or perish) that come at design from
> every possible angle imaginable, leaving as little to
> chance as possible, in order to try to develop the
> skill to get it right and make a living.
>
> Seventh, as with logic and math, most people (me
> included) and unfortunately I hear an increasing
> number of professional designers, have not studied
> sufficient aesthetics to know and skillfully apply the
> myriad formal and heuristic rules that might be
> applied to a given design problem to achieve (and
> recognize) what a truly elegant solution would be.
> This is partly why there is so much bad design; the
> other part apparently being that cost/benefit
> trade-offs apparently favor spending on marketing over
> spending on rigorous design; that is, tons of
> marketing can push junk more profitably than pounds of
> marketing can push brilliantly designed products, or
> something like that.
>
> Eighth, without rigorous knowledge of aesthetics, it
> is very hard to understand whether the beauty one
> perceives is systematically arrived at, or a fluke
> (note: there's nothing inherently wrong with a fluke
> if you can recognize it and figure out after the fact
> how to reproduce it).
>
> Ninth, without rigorous knowledge of aesthetics, it is
> very hard to look at an accidental discovery (see
> fluke above) of an elegant and beautiful design
> solution and discover why it is working and how that
> can be replicated, or how the principles underlying
> that success, can be adapted usefully to other design
> problems.
>
> Tenth, designers, or critics, or laymen, who tell you
> that all or most of the above is not essentially true
> are either fooling you, or themselves.
>
> Eleventh, some skillful designers are very generous
> with their knowledge and will gladly reveal how they
> do what they do including the rigorousness of the
> thought involved and the aesthetic tools they make use
> of. Others are generous but rather inarticulate. Still
> others are stingy with the tricks of their trade.
> Designers and artists, are afterall in a competitive
> profession/trade and it is often not in their
> interests to reveal the tricks of their trade. Charlie
> Chaplin never did reveal how he did some of the
> illusions of his films, for one example from
> film--another design oriented art/craft. But alot of
> designers, as in every other profession, are just
> barely competant and so have very little to share. And
> then there is the small group of designers, as in any
> profession, that are basically crazy and even if they
> talk alot about what they do, nothing much coheres. If
> you choose to study the nuts, beware you are almost
> by definition taking on an extra load of work. By this
> I mean you are becoming obligated to distill new
> aesthetic rules of your own derived from their--to put
> it charitably--non linear thinking, because beautiful
> or not their thinking is almost certainly
> disconnnected fragments of brilliant clarity and
> fragments of gibberish without reliable footnotes to
> distinguish the two and make the connections.
>
> Now, what little I know about aesthetics I have
> gleaned from the following sources: artist Wasily
> Kandisky's book on aesthetics (the title I forget
> right now, but this one lets you look at virtually any
> designed thing and tell immediately whether a designer
> had much systematic skill), philosopher George
> Santayana's book "The Sense of Beauty" (this explains
> the role of beauty in an epistemological
> framework--pretty dry and dull going), a college
> statistics teach who took pity on me and taught me a
> small bit about elegance in mathematical/computer
> modelling, and last but not least a handful of working
> designers that I have gotten to know on the internet
> the last few years. Read even just the Kandinsky book
> (or one like it) and you will be able to look at the
> aesthetics of bicycle lug filings and get a handle on
> what the designer was up to, whether he knew what he
> was doing, and whether he should have gone about it
> another way.
>
> Now, no knowledge is infallible, expecially when one
> is being careless one's self. For an example at my own
> expense, recently I was rapidly skimming ebay and
> carelessly outted a fraud bike thinking it might be
> something worthwhile. I got a proper clubbing for it.
> :-) But that error had more to do with my hurriedly
> noting the oddness of the bike and calling it to folks
> attention, as in hey, anyone ever heard of this? Had I
> taken the time to look closely at the picture as
> others did, I wouldn't have made the mistake, with or
> without any knowledge of aesthetics.
>
> But when it comes down to deciding whether a bike is
> truly something special, especially among a respected
> craftsman's inevitably varied output (no not even the
> masters are great everytime out), well, the old
> aesthetic tool box is a good thing to have handy.
>
> With knowledge of aesthetics, you become a much more
> perceptive and discriminating analyst, whether or not
> you are right every time about what's good (no one
> is), and you can begin to look at designs and say why
> this one works and that one doesn't, why even though
> most people don't get it this is a pretty fine piece
> of work and the other more popular thing may not be
> (and sometimes vice versa), and you don't have to rely
> on the opinions of others, or on your own intuitions.
> You can rely on your own reason.
>
> Now, I'm not going to weigh in on the topic of whether
> Rivendell lugs are any good or not. I've learned
> certain fields of discussion are a no win for me. I
> will say if you learn and apply even some of the most
> basic rules of aesthetics you will quickly understand
> why you respond to them the way that you do.
>
> Frankly, some artifacts are so sublime, that it
> doesn't matter a whit whether you know aesthetics or
> not. They kick you in the head with beauty. When I saw
> the David so many years ago now in Florence, I knew
> even less about aesthetics then than I do now, and it
> still bowled me over; not because I was preprogrammed
> to think it was beautiful, which I was (our culture
> does that to us about all kinds of things), but
> because it REALLY WAS sublime. Mickey Buonarotti hit a
> sculptural home run to straight away center, deep,
> deep, deep, way back, up on to the roof top and out of
> the Florentine equivalent of Yankee Stadium. But over
> the years, the more I've learned about aesthetics, the
> more sublimity it acquires. This guy could really find
> the line and form and massing in the stone, with
> unparalleled elegance, and he achieved, at least at my
> level of perception, unparalled beauty, especially
> after the scales of cultural conditioning fell away.
> And it didn't hurt that it had a dimension of cultural
> allegory, as it was supposed to be a tribute to
> Florentine power entering the world stage.
>
> Well, some of these lugged steel racing bikes of the
> last 75 or so years are remarkably elegant and
> beautiful things, whether or not they are widely
> recognized as such. Some kick you in the head. But
> alot are on the edge between sublime and simply
> idiosnycratic. One way to bias in favor of the legacy
> of the sublime and help these KOF builders continue to
> advance bicycle design is to bone up on your
> aesthetics and encourage newbies to also. The more
> perceptive and knowledgeable we all are, the more we
> will tend to reward (by purchase and/or praise) those
> designers who are really designing and building
> something extraordinary and diminish both for those
> who are not.
>
> Also, because we are talking mostly about North
> American builders here, it is even more incumbent upon
> us to understand aesthetics. Why? Because being
> Americans they are quite likely to produce designs
> that are significantly different from, say, English or
> Italian designers, even as they are influenced by
> them. Its a matter of cultural sensibility, imho.
> Because of this inherent difference, it is easy to
> misjudge American bike design. It is easy to say,
> well, it doesn't measure up, simply because it is
> diifferent and doesn't express the same sensibility.
> This is foolish and parochial. The same sound
> aesthetics should underpin both a Hetchins and a
> Rivendell, or my current favorite, a Vanilla. But the
> sensibilities of each culture and each designer should
> produce different riffs on the same aesthetics. Hence,
> in the case of a Rivendell, it is okay for the lugs
> not to look like the lugs on a 50s Bates, but they
> should still be based on sound aesthetic principles
> that yield a distinctly North American, or at least
> distinctly Rivendell design.
>
> To restate the point because I think it important,
> different cultures have some different sensibilities
> and so tend to yield different flavors of beauty. The
> first Camaro Z car is a beautiful thing, but utterly
> different from a Ferrari Daytona, which is also a
> beautiful thing. But you may not give the Camaro its
> due, if you do not recognize the American sensibility
> and the way in which its designers went about using
> sound aesthetics to achieve it.
>
> Finally, there is an old rule of thumb about gate
> keepers (scholarly reviewers) in academic publications
> that goes something like this: a few great thinkers
> will always produce innovative new research (they
> can't help themselves), but it takes great gatekeepers
> to recognize it and publish it for there to be real
> progress in science. To wit, as science is constrained
> by its reviewers, so KOF framebuilders are constrained
> by their buyers. Great KOF framebuilders need great
> buyers...to separate the wheat from the chaff. And of
> course the buyers need the KOF framebuilders. No
> golden goose, no golden egg.
>
> Don Wilson
> Los Olivos, CA
>
>
>
> --- Ken Wehrenberg <wnwires@htc.net> wrote:
>
> > Chuck Schmidt opined:
> >
> > The holes in the fork crown always reminded me of
> > those silly fifties
> > Buick portholes.
> >
> <http://www.gm.com/company/gmability/edu_k-12/images/
> >
> > buick_fender_mounted_portholes.jpg>
> > <http://rivendellbicycles.com/gallery_new/rivendell/
> >
> > riv_gp_headtube_400.jpg>
> >
> > Here are some more KOF portholes:
> >
> >
> http://classicrendezvous.com/
> >
> > Actually, I am in total agreement with Charles and
> > Chuck. The artistic
> > eye tells me there is incongruity in some aspects of
> > the Riv designs
> > and the scientific side of me questions why that may
> > be. Mr Starck
> > touched on the mathematical side of the why. In
> > facial form, structure
> > and reconstruction of parts, we deal with golden
> > section ideas as a
> > "go-to" reinforcement or substantiation of why some
> > things function and
> > then coincidentally work in terms of beauty.
> > Studies have been done
> > measuring conclusively that babies can sense an
> > attractive mother
> > differently than a less attractive one. There
> > appears to be some
> > hardwiring in all of us, courtesy of our Creator.
> > That being said, it
> > may be somewhat different in different races. The
> > golden section
> > mathematical rules do not work in quite the same
> > ways for Asians, for
> > example.
> >
> > A week or so ago, the Wall Street Journal had a
> > piece on the changing
> > aspects of frontal appearance of cars. A lot of
> > people apparently base
> > a large part of their decision to purchase a vehicle
> > based on its face.
> > The snarly Chris Bangle BMWs and the new Camrys
> > are examples of how a
> > relatively nasty expression has displaced a pleasant
> > face in the car
> > market. I hope we don't have a bike market where
> > the market gravitates
> > evermore to caulk-beaded tubes, etc and forgets the
> > decent pleasing
> > beauty of lugs, especially those done well,
> > regardless of our
> > comparatively petty artistic predilections.
> >
> > Ken Wehrenberg, Hermann, MO
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Classicrendezvous mailing list
> > Classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
> >
> http://www.bikelist.org/
> >
>
> D.C. Wilson dcwilson3@yahoo.com
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> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2006 13:10:19 -0700
> From: "Al Van Varick" <alvan519@cox.net>
> To: <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
> Subject: [CR]Iscaselle Saddles
> Message-ID: <HCEBKCNBHLADNIOJMAIDOEAOCIAA.alvan519@cox.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain;charset="iso-8859-1"
> MIME-Version: 1.0
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>
> Is there any information out there on Iscaselle Saddles, time frame, etc.
>
> Al Van Varick
> (520) 207-6955
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2006 15:11:12 -0500
> From: mmeison@aol.com
> To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
> Subject: [CR]Rivendell, Barber Pole (with warning).
> Message-ID: <8C81B3ABC7C19C8-19D4-15316@MBLK-M37.sysops.aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
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> Message: 4
>
> Gentle Readers (thank you Mr. King)
> Enough already. Argue about the ride, Argue about the
> head tube extension and sizing, but to argue the aesthics is
> well, pointless.
> I happen to prefer swoopy curvy lugs, I like
> the organic feel of Art Nouveau over the man made feel
> of Art Deco (and that's not to say I don't like Art Deco).
> Its a matter of personal preference. Beauty is in the eye of
> the beholder, and doesn't that sum things up nicely?
> speaking of which,
> I like the barber pole look but I have to admit it took a
> while for it to grow on me.
> I have one bike with that motief which can be seen
> on my wool jersey gallery.
> http://www.wooljersey.com/
>
> and Brandon, just a warning you might want to cover
> your eyes. . .
>
> Marty (chromatically challenged) Eison
> Frisco texas
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2006 12:46:54 -0800 (PST)
> From: Raymond Dobbins <raydobbins2003@yahoo.com>
> To: "classicrendezvous@bikelist.org" <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
> Subject: Re: Barber Pole <Re: [CR]Looking for pics of Doug Fattic frames>
> Message-ID: <20060321204654.78940.qmail@web60421.mail.yahoo.com>
> In-Reply-To: <C045BEC9.7A02%fatticbicycles@qtm.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
> MIME-Version: 1.0
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>
> My ex-wife has a Mercian Vincitore that I found on consingnment at a LBS,
with a beautiful red, white and blue barber-pole paint job. Oh, how I wish
that bike had been my size.
>
> The top tube, down tube and stays are solid blue, and the seat tube,
head tube and forks have the barber pole striping in red and white.
Adittionally, it has blue pinstriping all along the edges where the white
paint meets the red. It looks like the pinstriping was done freehand, and
it never ceased to amaze me every time I looked at it. It seems to me that
Mercian's extra charge for this paint job is extremely reasonable.
>
> Of course it also has very attractive ornate lugs and bb shell, making
it altogether the finest looking on-topic frameset I've ever had. Or
rather, that I wish I had.
>
> My ex doesn't ride it and doesn't appreciate it either - AAAARGH! I may
have to order an identical one from Mercian just so I don't stress out every
time I think about it.
>
> Ray Dobbins (don't worry, I'll be OK)
> Miami Florida
>
>
> Doug Fattic <fatticbicycles@qtm.net> wrote:
> I thought I should add a bit of explanation to the greater cost of multi
> color paint jobs. There is some suggestion that this increase is either a
> bit of unfair price gouging or the result of a lack of knowledge of how to
> work efficiently. Well since my name got magically added to this heading,
> and I learned the basics of painting in England 30 years ago and have
being
> doing it full time ever since, I'm hoping I can shed some light on this
> subject. Adding a second - or in the case of a barber pole - three colors
> (2 more on the seat tube as well as the main color) - greatly increases
the
> labor time - if it is done really well. To give some perspective, it can
> take me as much or more time to add colors to a frame as the total time to
> paint a single color frame. Production manufacturers don't do striping
> because it it too labor intensive and if they paint a second color, it
> almost always has a separating decal to mask the jagged edge of the
joining
> paint. Or they do a fade which solves the edge problem.
>
> To start with, paint has a certain thickness (it varies according to what
> paint) and when it comes in contact with masking tape, it will collect at
> the juncture making it even thicker there. To get a really clean edge wher
> e
> the paint is not raised at the 2nd color joint takes some real effort -
> especially if you don't want to show the different color underneath
layers.
> I don't think there is need to tell my painting techniques here but
> generally it is solved with sanding and multiple clear coats and moving
> masks. In addition, paint just loves to creep under masking and spoil the
> job. Adding to this complicity is masking at the lug without a jagged edge
> .
> Their are various ways to do this but they all involve time if done well.
>
> That barber pole look is somewhat of a Mercian trademark so I believe
> Brandon is correct, they have refined a painting technique to accomplish
> that specific look efficiently. So, my point is, really nice work is not
> only the result of proper methods but also hard work. I believe the cost o
> f
> doing multi colors is actually undervalued considering the time it takes
to
> do them well.
>
> How well something is done reminds me of my neighbor that stopped by
> yesterday and wanted recommendations for a bicycle for his wife to be able
> to exercise regularly on. It seemed to him that paying more than $200 for
> a
> new complete bicycle was paying too much since Wal Mart has them for under
> $100. How good a paint job is and it's cost can follow that same logic
> path. Not everyone cares how perfect paint edges can be, but for those tha
> t
> have an eye for detail, it is possible to see the difference between cheap
> and expensive 2nd color applications and figure it is worth the price.
>
> Doug Fattic
> Niles, Michigan
>
>
>
> From: Brandon Ives
>
>
> looking at Mercian's page they charge 34 pounds for the barber pole
> these days. The reason it's expensive is it's a very tricky mask to
> get correct. First you pain a base color. Second you need to get the
> spiral right and tight without any gaps. Then you need to mask two lug
> edges which can be a pain. Lastly you shoot your top color. Then you get
> to remove the masking and a piece that long can also be quite tricky to
get
> off and keep the edges crisp. I think the cheapest priced
>
> I was quoted was $125. Most painter charge in the ballpark of $50 just for
> just a contrasting band on the seattube so $125 seems about right for the
> work involved. Any additional color involves quite a bit of extra time tha
> t
> has nothing to do with spraying paint. My guess is Mercian can do it so
> cheaply because they have a system set up inn place that saves them time
an
> d
> are familiar with the job.
>
> best,
> Brandon"monkeyman"Ives
> Vancouver, B.C.
>
>
> On Tuesday, Mar 21, 2006, at 01:16 US/Pacific, Olof Stroh wrote:
>
> >
> > Brandon Ives wrote on the subject of barber poles:
> >
> >> Don't apologize I'm a total sucker for barber pole too. --------
> > I'd like to offer
> >> it to my customers, but the two quotes I've gotten from painters
> >> basically doubled the price of the paint job.
> > _____________________________
> > Why?
> >
> > Bought a barber pole bike from Mercian two years ago and they didn´t
char
> ge me
> a penny extra. Must be a way to do it in a rationall way.
> >
> > cheers
> >
> > Olof Stroh
> > Uppsala Sweden
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Classicrendezvous mailing list
> Classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
> http://www.bikelist.org/
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2006 15:09:55 -0600
> From: Steve Leitgen <sleitgen@charter.net>
> To: Classic Rendezvous <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
> Subject: [CR]Calling Ted Ernst
> Message-ID: <90DB881C-6103-4675-9E9D-378F986B7959@charter.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed
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> Message: 6
>
> Apologies for using the band width but I've experienced a major
> computer crash.
>
> Could Ted Ernst please e-mail me off list?
>
> Steve leitgen
> LA Crosse,WI
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2006 13:10:13 -0800 (PST)
> From: Kevin D Salyer <kdsalyer@sbcglobal.net>
> To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
> Subject: [CR]Team Champion info wanted
> Message-ID: <20060321211013.48059.qmail@web81208.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
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>
> Are there any Motobecane experts out there: I recently purchased a
Motobecane Team Champion frame (and am in the process of building it up)
which, according to the seller, is an early 1973 model. The top tube decal
is almost gone but it is quite different than what I am familiar with for
the Team Champion - rather than the typical black script, the letters are
red and it seems the French tri-colors are in the background.
>
> I have posted some pictures of the bike in its current state and a
close-up of the top tube decal. Also, I have a picture of the "normal"
decal. Also, the frame sports some flashy, aluminum type decals on the seat
and down tube which I have not seen before. These can be found at:
>
> http://tinyurl.com/
>
> Any information or references would be most appreciated. My first bike
in 1971 was a Super Mirage and I always lusted after the Team Champion. From
what I have seen up close, the wait was worth it.
>
> Kevin Salyer
> Lafayette, CA
>
>
> **************************************
> Kevin D. Salyer
> Professor of Economics
> Department of Economics
> University of California, Davis
> phone: 530-752-8359
> fax: 530-752-9382
> Web Page: http://www.econ.ucdavis.edu/
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2006 16:23:13 -0500
> From: "Steven Willis" <smwillis@verizon.net>
> To: <wheelman@nac.net>, <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
> Subject: Re: [CR]Re: KOF (Ray Homiski)
> Message-ID: <019201c64d2d$a98b8d00$2d01a8c0@bike1>
> References: <23670.146.152.216.1.1142970903.squirrel@webmail.nac.net>
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>
> Are you sure you still have it.
> Steven Willis
> The Bike Stand
> 1778 East Second Street
> Scotch Plains NJ 07076
> 908-322-3330
> http://www.thebikestand.com
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <wheelman@nac.net>
> To: <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2006 2:55 PM
> Subject: [CR]Re: KOF (Ray Homiski)
>
>
> > Kurt, I will do you one better. Next time you go down South so to speak.
> > Let me know as I possess a real (ICE BIKE) that is used to ride around
on
> > icy surfaces. It has two skate blades and a rear wheel with a cheese
> > grater surfaced rear tire to propel you. It works great but you need
that
> > one main ingredient, ICE. Since we did not have enought to ride this
year
> > it sat at my LBS (Thanks Steve) for the season just in case we got a
> > chance at it. We did so a few years back and it was a hoot.
> >
> > On your other question regarding KOF. Check this out on the CR site and
it
> > should answer your question. Scroll down to the bottom of this page till
> > you see Keepers of the Flame heading.
> >
> > http://www.classicrendezvous.com/
> >
> > Regards
> > Ray Homiski
> > Elizabeth, NJ
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Classicrendezvous mailing list
> > Classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
> > http://www.bikelist.org/
> >
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2006 13:44:58 -0800 (PST)
> From: Jerome & Elizabeth Moos <jerrymoos@sbcglobal.net>
> To: Kevin D Salyer <kdsalyer@sbcglobal.net>,
> classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
> Subject: Re: [CR]Team Champion info wanted
> Message-ID: <20060321214458.55155.qmail@web82201.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
> In-Reply-To: <20060321211013.48059.qmail@web81208.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
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> Precedence: list
> Message: 9
>
> You're right, these are definitely different from typical Team Champion
decals, but I see nothing in the frame construction to say it is not a Team
champion. Motobecane had some unusual variations, though. I have a Le
Champion with the red and black color scheme usually associated with the
Grand Record and with very large clearances like one would expect in a
touring model. Go figure.
>
> Regards,
>
> Jerry Moos
> Big Spring, TX
>
> Kevin D Salyer <kdsalyer@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> Are there any Motobecane experts out there: I recently purchased a
Motobecane Team Champion frame (and am in the process of building it up)
which, according to the seller, is an early 1973 model. The top tube decal
is almost gone but it is quite different than what I am familiar with for
the Team Champion - rather than the typical black script, the letters are
red and it seems the French tri-colors are in the background.
>
> I have posted some pictures of the bike in its current state and a
close-up of the top tube decal. Also, I have a picture of the "normal"
decal. Also, the frame sports some flashy, aluminum type decals on the seat
and down tube which I have not seen before. These can be found at:
>
> http://tinyurl.com/
>
> Any information or references would be most appreciated. My first bike in
1971 was a Super Mirage and I always lusted after the Team Champion. From
what I have seen up close, the wait was worth it.
>
> Kevin Salyer
> Lafayette, CA
>
>
> **************************************
> Kevin D. Salyer
> Professor of Economics
> Department of Economics
> University of California, Davis
> phone: 530-752-8359
> fax: 530-752-9382
> Web Page: http://www.econ.ucdavis.edu/
>
> _______________________________________________
> Classicrendezvous mailing list
> Classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
> http://www.bikelist.org/
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2006 17:03:25 -0500
> From: "Aldo Ross" <aldoross4@siscom.net>
> To: <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
> Subject: [CR]Pic of the Day - 58 Years Ago
> Message-ID: <000a01c64d33$47cbb080$1214fbd1@Newhouse>
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> Message: 10
>
> Pic of the Day
> 22 March, 2006
>
> Fifty-Eight Years Ago - Coppi Wins Milano-San Remo
>
> http://www.wooljersey.com/
>
> (Click pic for larger image)
>
> 19th March, 1948... Fausto Coppi (Bianchi) launches his decisive attack
> on the Capo Mele, 30 kms from the San Remo. By the finish he will gain
> 5'17" over his breakaway companions Fermo Camellini and Vittorio
> Rossello (Legnano), seen here struggling in vain to hold Coppi's wheel.
>
>
> For the 1948 season, Camellini raced for Métropolis-Dunlop while in
> France, but did he have a second contract for racing in Italy?
>
> >From "But et Club" No.112, 22 March 1948.
>
> See also the excellent web page:
>
> http://www.milansanremo.co.uk/
>
> Aldo Ross
> Middletown, Ohio
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 00:35:10 +0200
> From: Amir Avitzur <avitzur@013.net>
> To: Classicrendezvous <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
> Subject: [CR]Campy Pulleys
> Message-ID: <JJEEKLDDELHGFDGDBELBCEHHDAAA.avitzur@013.net.il>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1255
> MIME-Version: 1.0
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> Message: 11
>
>
> I've got old Campy Record and Campy Gran Sport rear deraileurs.
> One is missing its pulleys and another is missing some teeth on its
pulleys.
>
> I think that these pulleys had ball bearings in them.
>
> Are they available anywhere?
> Can something else be used as a replacement?
>
> Amir Avitzur
> Ramat-Gan, Israel
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> Classicrendezvous mailing list
> Classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
> http://www.bikelist.org/
>
>
> End of Classicrendezvous Digest, Vol 39, Issue 111
> **************************************************
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