Hi, My computer seems to be missing issues. I keep checking baand find the computer jumped from 43 to 45 and missed 44. Could someone send me these again, Please?
Paul Brown Cycle Dynamics Santa Rosa, CA
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Today's Topics:
1. NAHBS report- wordy 2. From a Cranky Englishmans Perspective (Michael Butler) 3. Re: bikes are art or not art (sandranian) 4. Re: Re: Bikes as Art (Ed Granger) 5. Re: Re: More about pins in frames (John Thompson)
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Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2006 14:02:38 EST From: Chuckdds@aol.com To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Cc: framebuilders@phred.org Subject: [CR]NAHBS report- wordy Message-ID: <200.1242ffa5.3141d5ce@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 1
There has been a lot of justified ranting about the state of the handmade bicycle building world. I wanted to take this time to give a perspective that is a little different. First, I am a newbie builder. This was my first show where I had a booth to show my work. I am lucky that the passion I have for building frames is not what I rely on to feed my family. This is a hobby which I hope to turn into a true business. I am very fortunate to have a career that allow me to do this. I spoke with all of the guys in my same position- building about 2 years or less and have a day jobs. We are all so excited about this. We are obsessed with framebuilding and the world that revolves around it. I have tried to push the negative ideas to the back of my mind. It is depressing when you keep hearing that builders wished that this was not their chosen profession. We keep hearing how they are unhappy with their financial situation. Not all, but at least the vocal ones. I have to say that many were so supportive of us new guys- willing to take the time to pass on their secrets and their knowledge. A short list that comes to mind include: Brian Baylis, JP Weigle, Richard Sachs, Doug Fattic, Nick Crumpton...
I want to let you all know my experience at NAHBS this year. Last year I attended as an observer. It was nothing like being a true part of it. I was so nervous to show my frames in an atmosphere filled with the best in the world. Would people look at my stuff and laugh or would they wait until I could not see them to comment. This haunted me for the last 4 months prior to the show. The 9 hour drive to San Jose in the rain gave me a bit more time to think- not always a good thing! I pulled into the convention center and thought "WOW" this is it. Then I was directed to the building where the event took place. As I was driving into the parking lot, I stopped a guy that looked like he knew what was going on- little did I know it was Peter Weigle! He told me that I could pull around and drive into the venue to offload my bikes. Also, I should check out the bathrooms- they are awesome.
It was like that scene at the beginning of Bull Durham when the scene enters into the baseball stadium- I saw bikes and people everywhere. After finding my booth, I gingerly offloaded my stuff. It took all of 15 minutes to set up (not having much but my 4 bikes)- Lance from Longstreth Cycles says to me "is that all you have". Well, did not do alot for my confidence. But Lance became a great friend during the show and they make beautiful frames. So after setting up my booth, I said hi to Brian and Richard and headed back to the hotel. I was beat from the drive and new that there was a long weekend ahead of me.
Friday was magical- people were lined up outside the door waiting to get in. I ended up almost losing my voice that first day- so many builders to meet and all the people who came to my booth. It was such an ego boost to have people look at my work and enjoy it.
Friday night came and let me tell you, if you missed the Mother Fluxers- you missed one hell of a show!!! The music, the company,and the alcohol contributed to a night to remember. Unfortunately, it made Saturday morning a very bad morning indeed. My head was pounding all day. But that was OK- the flood of people, the compliments, the talking shop , all made the day wonderful. I spent a long time speaking with another new builder- Greg Townsend and his wife Pricilla. They are the most genuine people I have met and were in the same boat as me regarding the show. It was nice to share stories of panic and uneasiness.
Saturday night was talking and eating with great friends and even better builders(you know who you are). Sunday came and the crowds kept coming. The day was spent as the previous two- talking, looking, and showing. A lot of talk has been circulating about the awards and everything revolving around it. I will not get into that. But you know what I have to say it was nice to get recognized for the work I had done...
Overall- my experience was incredible. I am so excited to keep building. I have people who want to buy my work. For me, I am inspired by those builders around me. We all brought our passion and put it out for criticism and review. We all deserve to be commended for what we have accomplished. From the Masters who were in our presence to the new guys like me, there will always be people who like or do not like what we do. Money will never be enough. It is the passion, the love of the bicycle that keeps a special breed of person in this endeavor. I hope no one has been discouraged. I hope that those artisans will continue to build what they feel is the perfect bike.
Chuck Schlesinger SadiLah handmade framesets, LLC San Diego, CA USA _WWW.Sadilah.com_ (http://www.sadilah.com/)
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Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2006 19:13:39 +0000 (GMT) From: Michael Butler
To: CR Rendezvous Subject: [CR] From a Cranky Englishmans Perspective Message-ID: <20060309191344.22493.qmail@web25302.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: list Message: 2
This is just an opinion if I was going to use a bicycle for serious riding I would opt for a British or American KOF frame built on traditional lines. Ideally if it was a Brit machine one of Martin Copelands Bates or any other from the very few reputable frame builders left in the UK. Think it would have to be a modern Bates lets face it the first generation ride like a modern machine and the new un's are wonderful. If your American it looks like you are spoilt for choice, probably the deciding factor in this is length of delivery wait for your frame. I would kit this out with 70's or 80's gear. Simplex, TA, Huret, Shimano or Suntour, would have to use modern brakes though. Finally all you really need is three bikes a hack, your serious special and a classic from whatever era takes your fancy. Must have 32H x 40H rims still a tradionalist at heart when it comes to wheels.
Thats all for now. Keep those wheels spinning, in your memories if not still on the road. Be lucky Mick Butler Huntingdon UK.
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Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2006 11:16:36 -0800 (PST) From: sandranian To: chuckschmidt@earthlink.net, classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: Re: [CR]bikes are art or not art Message-ID: <20060309191636.58904.qmail@web81410.mail.mud.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <44107BE8.DDAB71AE@earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: list Message: 3
I agree with Chuck. After all, if there was no art to bicycles, they would all look like mass produced French bikes of the 1970's.
Brian: Your bikes are art. All art has a "function", some art is functional: See Bauhaus.
Stephan Andranian Costa Mesa, CA http://www.gitaneusa.com
Chuck Schmidt wrote: But Brian, you just wrote, "I don't make art bikes. It annoys the crap out of me when people say that." Sam Maloof, in the quote below, is writing about utilitarian objects (furniture) qualifying as art.
It's kinda like when I've seen you get annoyed at people that compliment you on your artistic use of color shown in your paint schemes and don't comment on some other aspect of your bikes.
It's all good, Brutha... and some of it IS art!
Chuck Schmidt South Pasadena, Southern California
Brian Baylis wrote:
>
> Wayne,
>
> BRAVO BRAVO!
> You hit the head right on the nail!
> Bingo! Give the man a cigar and a cupie doll!
>
> Brian Baylis
> La Mesa, CA
>
> Wayne Bingham wrote:
>
> "If any arts have lasting beauty, they must certainly exist in
> utilitarian objects created by people aware of the materials, forms, and
> colors, and surfaces that please the eye and the body - and consequently
> live on through the years, growing more mellow and beautiful as time
> passes." --Sam Maloof, Master Woodworker
>
> Wayne Bingham
> Lovettsville VA
>
>
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Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2006 14:23:18 -0500 From: loudeeter@aol.com To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: Re: [CR]Re: Bikes as Art (Ed Granger) Message-ID: <8C811C60E054C11-1C14-1A7A@FWM-D13.sysops.aol.com> In-Reply-To: References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 4
I wonder what Rembrandt would have put on his Form 1040 (That is our tax return for you non-filers or non-U.S. readers) as his occupation- Painter or Artist?
I like Ed Granger's comment: "the number of people who care what a frame looks like under the paint will always be tiny."
Now the truth is out--we're all a bunch of perverts, wanting to see what is under the 'clothing'!
Lou Deeter, Orlando FL
As the test pilot climbs out of the experimental aircraft, having torn off the wings and tail in the crash landing, the crash truck arrives, the rescuer sees a bloodied pilot and asks "What happened?". The pilot's reply: "I don't know, I just got here myself!" - Attributed to Ray Crandell (Lockheed test pilot)
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Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2006 13:52:55 -0600 From: John Thompson To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: Re: [CR]Re: More about pins in frames Message-ID: <44108797.2000500@new.rr.com> In-Reply-To: <440FEC30.2070600@df.unipi.it> References: <70e14d4c0603080623k6b808d2eocec4f705a0233868@mail.gmail.com> <8C810E63F618415-153C-13A09@MBLK-R09.sysops.aol.com> <440F0F7C.5090009@df.unipi.it> <8C810F6E69F9862-D38-4897@MBLK-M14.sysops.aol.com> <440FEC30.2070600@df.unipi.it> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Reply-To: john@os2.dhs.org Message: 5
Sergio Servadio wrote:
> I beg to differ here. Any joint that would tend to unglue cannot but
> profit by having an added mechanical impediment to that. The
> improvement depending on obvious details.
I don't think a pin -- whether it be placed in carbon fiber, aluminum, or steel -- is going to do much to prevent joint separation in a completed joint.
The pins are there for one reason only: to hold the tubes in place until the real bonding material (silver or brass in the case of steel frames) can be applied. A pin acting as a structural component of the completed joint will be a terrific stress raiser -- especially in material like carbon fiber, which is not designed to handle that type of loading.
-- John (john@os2.dhs.org) Appleton WI USA ------------------------------
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End of Classicrendezvous Digest, Vol 39, Issue 45 *************************************************