Dear Charles & list:
I agree that modern racing frames do ride "differently" than classic style frames, but that's kind of a moot point in a custom frame because you define the ride characteristics, and the builder designs according to those parameters. Have Goodrich, Gordon, Wiegle, Waterford or Sachs build a dropped BB and a longer wheelbase, and poof! Instant Pogi clone.
As far as weight goes, there's a few pounds to be saved in a modern steel bike as compared to a classic machine, but a lot of it is in the components now. As a data point, my KOF Goodrich is 90% Campy Chorus Ergo with a FSA Carbon crank, Proton wheel set, Look Keo cro-mo pedals, cro mo Nitto semi-lugged ahead stem and 25mm Conti tires. The only carbon fibre is in the cranks, brake levers and derailleurs. Total weight is 19 pounds and a bit (my shop has a dial indicator bike scale, so exact weights are hard to read). I didn't write down the frame + fork weight, but I recall it being about 5.5 pounds. Switch to ti pedals, carbon bars, stem, seat post and a gossamerized saddle, 21mm tires, and I would be around 18 pounds. This on a 62cm steel lugged bike for a heavy rider. My lightest classic bike is the Stan Pike 753r frame with tubular wheels, which goes about a pound heavier. Neither bike has crazy light non-durable parts on it. So there appears to be still a pound or two difference between the lightest steel and the lightest alternate material bike, if that makes any difference. The Goodrich is certainly a lovely ride, not twitchy or uncomortable at all. How fast is the Goodrich? We'll need a better engine for a valid test. :-)
Tom Adams, Shrewsbury NJ
chasds@mindspring.com wrote: Louis wrote:
A modern lugged steel frame will weigh little more than half of the weight of a frame from the 50's. No classic bike from the 50's is going to come close to a Pegoretti Luigino or similar bike in ride. The closest you will get in a pre '84 bike is a frame made from Reynolds 753, and these aren't from the 50's. If you haven't ridden one of these new bikes, you don't know what you are missing.
*****
No, I haven't ridden a Pegoretti luigino. I did ride a very nice modern Waterford lugged steel bike with all Ergo stuff a couple of years ago..it was impressive. Does that count? But it was not as rewarding in general as my 1960s Pogliaghi road bike with the low bb shell, long wheelbase, and relaxed angles. It goes plenty fast, and it's just on rails even on the nastiest downhill. I have yet to ride a bike of it is as sheerly enjoyable to use. Old Masis come close.
Much of this ride-quality thing is a matter of taste...and the quick, upright frames of today certainly have a lively feel, but for all-around riding, I prefer the older geometries, when done by a master. Yeah, some can be a little too plushy for my taste..but the older, more moderate geometries when used by a Masi or a Pogliaghi or Cinelli seem like some kind of ideal.
After riding many different kinds of vintage road frames it seems to me that geometry plays a far more influencial role in the "ride" of the bike, than do relatively modest differences in materials.
Charles Andrews SoCal
_______________________________________________
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Mail
Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze.