Thanks for some clarification Brian,
I think I'm starting to see where some of the misunderstandings started. And this is making a little more sense to me. The devil is in the details eh?
Some of the animosity seem to stem from my motivations for restoring the frame and selling it.
I don't recall ever telling you that the frame had sentimental value to me. I know I didn't because I don't lie to people, and that would have been a complete fabrication. My vague recollection of our phone conversation some two years ago is that at some point you said (I thought rhetorically) something like "a frame like this would have to have sentimental value for someone to want to spend the money to restore it". I don't think I was agreeing that it had sentimental value, just that I wanted to proceed with the restoration. I bought the bike on ebay just a few months before I sent it to you... specifically as a restoration project. I wasn't trying to get rich... I knew nothing about the bike, and wanted to get it fixed up just so I could have one of those beautiful old Masis to ride. I had no intention of selling it, as witnessed by the haphazard collection of components on the bike. I wanted something that would ride like an original bike without spending years obsessing over finding parts for a concourse restoration.
Lastly, I really wasn't after big money. The price I was asking was based more on what I was willing to give up the bike for. Maybe the thing is only worth $1500... but it's worth at least $2000 to me... So if it isn't worth that to someone else, I'd rather keep it and continue to enjoy it.
I will, at the very least... revise the listing yet again to reflect all this information....
Thanks all,
-Mark
On Apr 24, 2006, at 3:39 PM, brianbaylis@juno.com wrote:
> Hey gang,
>
> Haven't keept up to date on this Masi thing; but having read the
> email t
> hat Mark posted that was written by Craig Fenstermaker from my shop
> VCS,
> I can see where some of this odd stuff came from. First of all,
> who is
> being quoted is Craig Fenstermaker, my long gons former start-up
> partner
> was. What Craig wrote is typical of the sorts of confusion that
> unsued
> when Craig undertook customer relations. He didn't know a whole lot
> abou
> t what we were doing and it took about a month or so to begin to
> see the
> dangerous pattern he was establishing. Also, that email was sent
> to Mar
> k upon first inspection of the bike, which came in in a condition
> I've n
> ever seen a bike in before. It turns out the obscured serial number
> was
> probably from a PREVIOUS down tube repair possibly. Maybe it was
> obscure
> d by the aftermatket full chrome job that had been done to the
> frame aft
> er the bunch of brazeons had been added; and then stripped of the
> full c
> hrome job which left behing a lot of copper plating.
>
> I fixed this bike because the owner said they were going to keep it
> on a
> ccount of setimental reasons, which is why he was willing to spend
> the $
> $ to make it right again. The "Mario" built part of this bike is
> that he
> brazed it, just like every standard Masi built in Carlsbad until
> 1975 o
> r so. The bike has Columbus chainstays NOT Columbus Record but
> probably
> SP, the opposite of Record) for some reason. Why that is becomes a
> legit
> imate question; perhaps one of rhe suggested employee bike or even
> a spe
> cial request from a regular customer is the answer. But the whole
> bike i
> s not Mario like some of the actual "special production" bikes.
> This is
> not one of them.
>
> Brian Baylis
> La Mesa, CA
>
>
>
> -- joebz@optonline.net wrote:
> The problems go on and on with a sales pitch that is overhyped and
> repla
> ces speculation with certainty. The seller states that is
> "undoubtably"
> a Confente built bike. It may or may not be a Confente built bike
> but i
> t is just plain untrue to say it is undoubtably a Confente built bike.
> Other things are garbled or wrong. The Columbus Record chainstays
> become
> "higher quality Campagnolo chainstays." Huh? The bike wasn't
> "rebuilt".
> It was more like salvaged. 1972? California Masi. So I guess this
> is th
> e earliest known California Masi.
>
> Joe Bender-Zanoni
> Great Notch,NJ
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: hersefan@comcast.net
> Date: Monday, April 24, 2006 10:15 am
> Subject: Re: [CR]Missing more - Two Masi bikes for sale on iBOB
>
>> I think I missed something else here as well - dosen't the
>
>> original ebay post omit the info that the dowtube was replaced?
>
>> Only in the posted question responses does this info come out.
>
>> Did I miss something in the body of the original text on this? By
>
>> not providing this information for all to see, it seems that
>
>> travel at least started down that slippery slope of
>
>> misrepresentation. I sure has heck would want to know up front if
>
>> a frame I was buying had undergone major tube replacement.
>
>> Hopefully Mark simply did not realize that such a repair
>
>> constitutes much more than a typical extensive restoration.
>>
>
>> Mike Kone in Boulder CO
>> -------------- Original message --------------
>
>> From: "Steven L. Sheffield" <stevens@veloworks.com>
>
>>
>
>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>
>
>>> Some people might assume that "built for a friend of mario's"
>
>> means "built
>
>>> by Mario for a friend" ...
>
>>>
>
>>> Even so, it's still speculation, since no one really knows the
>
>> provenance of
>
>>> the frame.
>
>>>
>
>>> However, I think that Mark was being perhaps overly
>
>> enthusiastic, rather
>
>>> than intentionally misleading; seizing and believing the
>
>> possibility that
>
>>> the frame may have been built by Mario as a fait accompli.
>
>>>
>
>>> I think that everyone involved is over-reacting.
>
>>>
>
>>> The facts are that it's a beautifully Brian Baylis-restored, but
>
>> unusual
>
>>> Masi ... this fact alone should be enough to intrigue some
>
>> buyers.
>
>>>
>
>>> As to whether or not it was "undoubtedly built by Mario
>
>> Confente" ... well,
>
>>> only Mario knows for sure, and he's not around to clear things
>
>> up.
>
>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>
>
>>> On 04/24/2006 05:44 AM, "Angel Garcia" wrote:
>
>>>
>
>>>> Am I missing something? The ebay listing says, "Confente Built
>
>> Masi". I
>
>>>> don't anything in Brian's note (attached by Mark Flaming) that
>
>> quotes Brian
>
>>>> as saying it was a Confente built Masi.
>
>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>> From Craig Fenstermaker to Mark Flaming:
>
>>>
>
>>>>> we have completed our initial inspection and have discovered;
>
>>>>> 1) this is an unusual bike, it does not follow any s/n system
>
>> that brian
>
>>>>> or i am familiar with.
>
>>>>> 2) it had columbus record chainstays instead of the standard
>
>> chainstays.
>
>>>>> 3) it has lead a hard life, lottsa rust and several dents /
>
>> dings /
>
>>>>> previous repairs
>
>>>>>
>
>>>>> 1 & 2 leads us to believe that this might have been a masi
>
>> employee's
>
>>>>> bike originally, or perhaps it was built for a friend of
>
>> mario's.
>
>>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>> --
>
>>> Steven L. Sheffield
>
>>> stevens at veloworks dot com
>
>>> bellum pax est libertas servitus est ignoratio vis est
>
>>> ess ay ell tea ell ay kay ee sea eye tee why you ti ay aitch
>
>>> aitch tee tea pea colon [for word] slash [four ward] slash
>
>> double-you
>
>>> double-yew double-ewe dot flahute dot com [foreword] slash
>
>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>
>
>>> _______________________________________________
>
>>> Classicrendezvous mailing list
>
>>> Classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
>
>>> http://www.bikelist.org/
>
>>
>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Classicrendezvous mailing list
>> Classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
>> http://www.bikelist.org/
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Classicrendezvous mailing list
> Classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
> http://www.bikelist.org/
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Classicrendezvous mailing list
> Classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
> http://www.bikelist.org/
Mark Flaming CFO Sutter Instrument Company
email: mark@sutter.com phone: 415-883-0128 fax: 415-883-0572
_______________________________________________
Classicrendezvous mailing list
Classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
http://www.bikelist.org/