Re: [CR]Re. Assumptions

(Example: Production Builders:Peugeot:PX-10LE)

Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2006 20:34:49 +0100
Subject: Re: [CR]Re. Assumptions
From: "Hilary Stone" <hilary.stone@blueyonder.co.uk>
To: <vergrandis@tesco.net>, <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
In-Reply-To: <20060427182239.CIPP16086.aamtaout04-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@smtp.ntlworld.com>


I would never claim to be free from making mistakes; however I would still stand by my comments regarding Evans and touring frames. Almost all the F W Evans frames I have seen over the last 25 years have been tourers with a fe w being capable of being considered as general club cycles. I have yet to see an Evans tandem though I know they built a number. I have seen many other tandems from the 30s; F H Grubb, Selbach and Claud Butler are the most common from the smaller builders whilst Sun and BSA built far larger number s of tandems than any of the small makers. With F W Evans only making an average of 300 frames in total per year the number of tandems made must hav e been very small. Normally I think Evans frames had the number stamped on th e left-hand side of the seat lug but particularly in post-war years the numbe r was often moved to the bottom bracket shell. I have talked to a very large number of cyclists, read widely in both the CTC Gazette and Cycling of F W Evans cycles. The fact that F W Evans despite being an ex-editor of Cycling chose to advertise mainly in the CTC Gazette I think speaks volumes. I choose to examine all the evidence available from as many sources as possible rather than rely on memories which can sometimes be tinted or distorted for a variety of reasons. As to Frank's comments regarding the Veteran-Cycle Club's name change which took place in 1988 I certainly played my part in helping the name change to go through. I believed then as I still do, that the name Southern put off a lot of potential members from Scotland and the North of England. The word Southern is important to people who live in the North; not to thos e who already live down south. The north-south divide is still important, one only has to take a look at the economics to see that this is the case. But there were only three (five if you count family members) resignations from the (S)V-CC at the time. I have never heard of the Vegetarian Cycling Club as being referred to as the VCC and the Veteran-Cycle Club is any case referred to as the V-CC rather than VCC. One final point - I did not take the N&V from a Gestetner newsletter to an A4 publication. That was already started by several N&V editors in the 1980s - Martin Smith, Mike Benson and others and then turned into a magazin e by Les Bowerman from 1988 onwards. I only took over as one of two editors i n 1997. We just continued to develop N&V.

Hilary Stone, Bristol, England


> From: <vergrandis@tesco.net>
> Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2006 19:22:39 +0100
> To: <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
> Subject: [CR]Re. Assumptions
>
> Mr.Brown,
> You are blocking my mail so you give me no alternative than to post this on
> the list which I did not want to do but how else can I reply to your
> assumptions.
> Dear Mr. Brown,
> I was saddened to hear from you that Mr. Hilary Stone had relinquished hi s VCC
> Committee post. They the club will sorely miss him. He is probably
> irreplaceable. It was no mean achievement of his part to take a rag-bag f our
> page magazines, poorly produced on a duplicator and single handedly makes
   it
> into the wonderful publication it is today. This magazine is greatly enjo yed
> by all cyclists worldwide. In doing this sterling work he also greatly ra ised
> the profile of veteran cycling collecting.
> I truly hope he will be remembered for this excellent work. Having said t his
> man has faults, he is not always historically correct or accurate on the
> subjects he writes about. This is why I was asking on list for some
> explanations on two points: Evans frame numbers and the highly misleading
> reference to F.W.Evans and touring bicycles.
> You might deem this snobby and elitist but he was never a club cyclist in
   my
> eyes so his out pourings to me lack a certain kudos and need to be questi oned
> on accuracy.
> What is particularly irritating to numerous club cyclists is the way that
   he
> comes across as the only worth while authority on Cycling. He has made
> numerous inaccurate statements in print which he does get occasionally
> challenged on.
> If you put yourself up as self appointed expert and authority you are goi ng to
> take flack when you invariably get it hopelessly wrong.
> Another matter which really annoys British cyclists of a certain age is t he
> name of the VCC.
> In the United Kingdom it has been an unwritten law or matter of principal
   hat
> you do not use the initials of another cycling club or organization. The VCC
> was originally named the SVCC by its founding fathers. The Southern Veter an
> Cycling Club. The word Southern has nothing to do with regions or elitism . We
> Southerners are better than you Northerners, no the word Southern was put
> there to stop it being confused with the VCC the Vegetarian Cycling Club.
   This
> is cycling club etiquette, many members who were cyclists fought tooth an d
> nail to keep the word “Southern” in the name. Many resigned over the name
> change or quite simply did not renew their membership. I think I am corre ct in
> saying that Mr.Stone will be forever linked and associated with those
> scoundrels who stole a famous clubs initials. They to a man were clearly
   not
> cyclists and ignorant of British cycling clubs traditions and unwritten r ules.
> Now to your totally unfounded and hurtful accusation “I am assuming you a re
> giving the knife a twist in your comments. This is not true and very hurt ful
> and judgmental on your part. There was definitely no unpleasantness
> intentioned and to infer that this was cleverly insinuated is clearly not
> correct.
> Your illustrious President Mr. Bush and our glove puppet of a Prime Minis ter
> Tony Blair assumed that there were weapons of mass destruction held in Ir aq
> which has now been disproved as an incorrect assumption.
> If I was truly clever and devious I would have posted this directly to th e
> list. Please do not look for malice a motive or evil in everything. The p erson
> in question should be praised for his achievements and thanked for his ma ny
> correct and interesting contributions but when he states something which is
> clearly wrong or inaccurate, surely we should be able to query or critici ze
> him in free debate
> Which side of the seat lug is the frame number on an Evans the list or me
> still hasn’t had an answer.
> Finally I don’t expect you to publish this on the list as I think it is a
   case
> of my bat my ball my game on your list. Now that’s me making an assumptio n.
> Yours truly Frank.
>
> Frank Cohen Hoxton UK.
>
>
>
>
> Frank Cohen Hoxton UK