I too will stand by what I said, but Claud Butlers, Grubbs ans Selbachs small builders you are not serious surely? Didn't you once say that Stan Butler was a builder at Bates this is historically inaccurate he never built a frame. Many members left the old SVCC in disgust at the name change. Now regarding touring bikes, from cyclings beginings well into the 1950's British cycling was about 70% utility cycling and 30% club cyling and only about 10% of club cyclists would have raced regulary. Using these figures you just couldn't survive as a builder making purely racing frames they all made touring frames and Butler's a small firm you are having a laugh. Ferris, Scotts and Sanders were small builders. Finally 25 years puts you back to the early 80's so how can you possibly comment on Evans most of these bikes were junked before you put an appearance on the scene. I am begining to regret all those nice things I said about you. Yours fraternally Frank.
Frank Cohen Hoxton UK