Hilary, I personally welcome spirited discourse and a variety of opinions. I think all can appreciate that you have supported your premise in an orderly and well substantiated fashion. Personally I have a 1954 Claud Butler Olympic Sprint with the larger top tube which has some of the nicest workmanship of any frame I have ever seen bar none and it rides superbly. I can well believe that the choice of top tube contributes to the superb handling. I had planned to bring this bike to Cirque this year but unfortunately will not be able to attend.
Edward Robert Brooks Managing Director Edward Roberts International Auctioneers of the Fine and Rare 1262 West Winwood Drive Lake Forest, Illinois 60045 Phone- 847.295.8696 Facsimile- 847.295.8697 Email- ebrooks@eriwine.com Website- http://www.eriwine.com
-----Original Message----- From: classicrendezvous-bounces@bikelist.org [mailto:classicrendezvous-bounces@bikelist.org] On Behalf Of Hilary Stone Sent: Thursday, May 25, 2006 1:27 PM To: vergrandis@tesco.net; classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: Re: [CR] 1 1/8in top tubes
Quite how who I have ridden with has anything to do with a discussion on the benefits 1 1/8in top tubes is beyond me. What is important however is the assertion by Frank that top British framebuilders consider the 1 1/8in TTs to be of no use. I do not know who he has spoken to but Tony Oliver (who I consider to be one of the finest British framebuilders of the last 20 years) makes a strong case for them on larger frames and on open frames in his treatise on framebuilding Touring Bikes. Chas Roberts and George Longstaff have also been exponents of the larger diamter top tubes and both must rank in the top ten Brit framebuilders of the last 20 years. Dave Yates another superb builder also uses the larger diameter TTs on many of his frames... So of the current Brit builders still building in steel does not use the larger diameter TT? Its not just amongst the more recent builders who advocate larger TTs Bill Grey who was chief foreman frame builder at Claud Butler post WWII in an interview in 1986 told me that 1 1/8in TTs were an excellent idea on larger frame sizes and on track frames - that is why CB used the larger diameter TTs on their Olympic Sprint and Allrounder frames which were their top of the range frames. Finally I don't know of any builders who have specifically advertised their frames as being built with 1 1/8in TTs - they simply incorporasted them into frames where it was possible. In the classic era lugs were not available for 1 1/8in TTs so fillet brazed or bilaminated construction was a necessity. Bilaminated construction in particular ia a more expensive construction method. I am not advocate the use of 1 1/8in TTs for all frames - on smaller frames especially with lighter riders they are not necessary. The greatest benefits come on larger frames or those made with especially thin walled tubing.
Hilary Stone, Bristol, England
> From: <vergrandis@tesco.net>
> Date: Thu, 25 May 2006 18:16:29 +0100
> To: <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
> Subject: Re: Re: [CR] 1 1/8in top tubes
>
> Stiffer now nothing about the bleeding steering did you ever ride a bike
as a
> clubmen? I don't think so all text book and no experience riding.
> Sorry you are very poor authority in my book and no one I know in the old
> British club scene has really heard of you or can remember riding with
you.
> None of this matters but I have asked three of the foremost British frame
> builders what they thought of your assertions that a 1 1/8" top tube
improves
> steering and they wet their pants. I know they are getting on but this was
not
> through incontinence.
>
>
> Frank Cohen Hoxton UK