I fear I'm about to reveal my ignorance of late 40's/50's gear. My first venture into bikes before the mid-60's was a 1950 Claud Butler Avant Courer I picked up from Peter Naiman at Larz year before last. That one is complete, but I now have a London-made Bates and the Baines framesets and so must sort out correct equipment.
Does "sleeve-type rings" refer to rings, like TA Professional and similar Campy and Nervar three arm rings, which are actually drilled at 116 BCD and therefore fit a three arm cottered crankarm without use of a "carrier"? I believe most old cottered steel three arm cranks used a bolt which threaded into the crankarm to secure the chainring "carriers". It appears one could bolt on a TA Professional ring in place of the carriers, but how would one secure an inner ring of a double? Even if one could find longer bolts, they would place both rings outside the crankarm which would ruin the chainline. Was this the reason for some old six-hole Stronglight and Simplex rings? Did three holes secure the ring to the three arm steel crank, while the other three were used to secure the inner ring to the outer one?
Regards,
Jerry Moos Big Spring, TX
Hilary Stone <hilary.stone@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote: Your number is one of the highest known numbers for a Baines - post war numbers start around 1200-1300. So I suspect it is around 1950-51. Williams 3arm cranks when fitted with sleeve type rings (albeit they were only introduced around 1956) but the cranks were otherwise identical tok rings down to 32T. And Cyclo offered wide ratio ring pairs to fit almost any 5-pin cottered crank so wide ratios were possible. However I think it very unlikey that any Baines would have been fitted with a double chainwheel as it is really quite difficult to mount a front mech in the correct place. On TJ Cycles (Trevor Jarvis) Gates special brackets were made for some front mechs... TA Cyclotourist rings I thyink were available from the mid 50s though TA were making rings from 1948. Anothe4r option is to use hybrid gears derailleur with 2 or 3 sprockets mounted on a hub gear - if you really want wide ratio gears that is almost certainly the way to go on a Baines Gate where the rear end is pretty short.
regards
Hilary
> From: Jerome & Elizabeth Moos
> Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 09:18:06 -0700 (PDT)
> To: Hilary Stone , Mark Poore
> , Classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
> Subject: Re: [CR]Baines Whirlwind
>
> Thanks much, Hilary. Assuming I have a number beginning in W, does someone
> have a guide for narrowing down the year from the range the sequential number
> falls in? The eBay auction states this as 1947/48. It also gives a "No.
> 1829". If one presumes that is the serial number, would it confirm the 47/48
> date?
>
> When did the Cyclotourist rings become available? One problem my old fart
> legs have with these circa 1950 bikes is that old cottered cranks that were
> typical on them don't have a very low low gear if one is in hilly terrain. If
> the Cyclotourist rings as well as 49D arms were available in 1947-1952 that
> could provide a correct chainset with a lot more gearing flexibility.
>
> Regards,
>
> Jerry Moos
> Big Spring, TX
>
>
> Hilary Stone wrote:
> Baines serial numbers are normall on the rear dropout left hand side. Its a
> simple sequential number, post war Baines gates starting with a W or
> occasionally WW. This one's lugged BB shel is unusual. The rear spacing
> could have been anything between 110 and 120mm - depending on what gears it
> was built for. A good guide is that the seatstays should run straight... The
> stops are probably more modern additions but without a closer-up pic I'd not
> be sure. Stronglight 49Ds were available from 1938 but really rather rare
> until much later. Williams C1000 would have been the most likely original
> fitment.
>
> Hilary Stone, Bristol, England
>
>> From: Jerome & Elizabeth Moos
>> Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 07:14:49 -0700 (PDT)
>> To: Mark Poore , Classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
>> Subject: [CR]Baines Whirlwind
>>
>> I recently bought on eBay this Baines Whirlwind:
>>
>>
http://ebay.com/
>> DisplayType=2#ebayphotohosting
>>
>> Does anyone know how to date a Baines from a serial #, or where the serial #
>> would be located? The CR web site quotes Hilary as saying the Baines Flying
>> Gate frame was made from 1935 to 1952. Is he correctly quoted?
>>
>> If this is indeed no newer than 1952, then I imagine the brazeon toptube
>> cable
>> guides, and probably the brazeon chainstay cable stop and FD cable stop, are
>> nonoriginal. Can anyone confirm this? What would the rear spacing have been
>> in 1952?
>>
>> Any suggestions for correct components? Was the Stronglight 49D crank
>> available in 1952? What about the TA Cyclotourist rings which we often see
>> mated with 49D arms in the 60's?
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Jerry Moos
>> Big Spring, TX