I have been following the 753 discussion from the beginning, and it's
taken quite a few twists and turns along the way. I even went back to
some CR discussion on this topic from some years ago (Nov '01 actually),
and finally feel I have to jump in and add, once again, to this on going
saga. This latest bit about the existence of 753 fork blades:
>>>Jon Schaer writes, in part:
I don't believe there was ever a "753" fork blade. To make it thin
enough to have any worthwhile weight savings, there supposedly would
have been problems bending the heat-treated material. The blades should
be 531....<<<
is what drove me back to something I posted in that thread of so many
years ago. Here is a little of that exchange, which is relevant here as
well:
>>>Norman Kilgariff writes, in part:
I'm told a 753 tubeset is a mix, forks are always 531 because 753 is
just too risky on the fork. Also, when Holdsworth started using 753 on
the Professional the team suffered from snaps. Jock Kerr snapped a frame
(right chainstay I think) during a late 70's Milk Race and was not a
happy camper. You 'll get some techy stuff on the reynolds website.<<<<
The Reynolds web site states:
"The steering columns in all 753 sets are 531 material."<<<<
To which I wrote: - which would seem to indicate that fork blades were 753. That's consistent with my Trek track frame which has very thin fork blades with "Reynolds 753 Fork Blades" decals. Seen here:
http://www.vintage-trek.com/
(Not that I'm one to believe that a sticker really means that's what a frame is made of....I have examples that support that, but that's another topic).
So were there, or were there not, 753 blades?
The question that started the recent thread was this:
>>>Jack Romans writes, in part:
...a vintage bike mechanic and rider told me he preferred the ride
quality of 531 above all other tube sets and 753 bikes were too stiff in
comparison. Since 753 came out around the time when (race/road)
geometries were also tightening-up, I wonder if ride quality was as much
affected by this as by the supposedly stiffer tubing? Has anyone ridden
a 753 bike with relaxed geometries and how does ride quality compare
with 531? Since this question is highly subjective, I hope paying a
fortune for a 753 bike won't skew your assessment too much as it
probably would mine.<<<
I guess I should have jumped in there, but anyway....Yes, highly subjective. Very highly. There are just so many factors that impact the ride quality waaay more than the frame material that it's almost impossible to do a comparison. Jan and others get into the whole stiffness issue, and observations on comparisons, even devolving into suppositions about blind tests of externally identical bikes. Interesting idea. Good luck with that, but don't anyone hold their breath waiting. But back to Jack's question. I have a frame that would appear to answer it, at least somewhat. I have a Merckx Grand Prix, built with 753 tubes. It is a 55cm frame, and has conventional (for the time) geometry of 73 degree seat and head tubes, BB drop of about 70mm, and fork rake probably in the 73 range. Collectively, I have probably put more miles on this frame than any other I have ever owned. A lot of that is due to timing, of course. The Merckx was my primary ride for many years, years when I didn't own as many bikes as I do now. It was built up with various component combinations at various times, from friction to Ergo. It remains one of the best riding bikes I have ever owned. Still subjective. For me it's great. It's geometry was the model for my Land Shark - in Dedacciai Zero Uno tubes (another bike that is a joy to ride), and is the model for my Bohemian - 531 SL tubes. Now there's something to compare.
And then there is the 753R question. I own two other bikes with 753 frames. An '85 Raleigh Team USA, and the aforementioned Trek custom track frame. I haven't ridden either of these even remotely as much as the Merckx, especially the Trek, being a track bike. I have ridden the Raleigh often though, and rode it this year at the Cirque. It has a lighter "feel" than the Merckx, but the frame is slightly larger, and the components are so different - the Raleigh has always had tubulers and the Merckx never has - that comparisons are so subjective as to be somewhat irrelevant.
Both the Raleigh and the Trek sport 753R stickers, so now back to that
issue from the current thread.
>>>John Thompson writes, in part:
IIRC, the original 753 tubing was very light and officially intended for
track and record attempts. 753R came out a little later with slightly
thicker walls to be a more durable road tubing.<<<
How does that fit with the frames I have? The Merckx supposedly 753, and the Raleigh and Trek (ostensibly pure racing frames) supposedly 753R.
So what is 753R?
I realize that I've not really added any significant knowledge to the thread, and just asked a lot more questions, but much of this on-going topic has never really resolved itself. It just comes back around every so often.
Wayne Bingham
Lovettsville VA USA