David,
Since you're keeping a discussion on the list I will reply here despite my already having apologized to you for my inadvertent reply to the entire list when I meant only for John to receive.
Anyways - your post seems to be be playing the "it was years ago" card and your memory is lacking about the bike. Yet, just last month you wrote to another list member regarding the bike's recent auction:
"My brother had a very close relationship with both Pino and Cecil Behringer and I'm pretty damn sure this item is my brother's old bike"
I subsequently emailed you directly on July 18th to ask if you could elaborate some details about your brother's bike and got no response of any kind. You are now emailing Dale and are complaining of this bike's "growing history" which I don't understand at all. It's just an "alternate history from yours" if you will, that is more in line and consistent with the limited evidence we have so far. That alternate history comes from people who actually had the bike in their posession and are relaying what they've been told. Nobody is making any guarantees about the bike's provenance. The closest thing to a guarantee so far is your repeated conjecture that it was your brother's bike (with no details to collaborate).
Tam Pham Huntington Beach, CA - USA
On 8/20/06, David Patrick <patrick-ajdb@sbcglobal.net > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> Tam,
>
> Spin it any way you like. It's Dale's list and I'm not going to get into
> a pissing contest on list, which no one needs. Your comments directed
> towards me were uncalled for, in my opinion, and that is what I was bringing
> to your attention. My original posts to the CR list were years ago and, as
> I said, was conjecture on my part over what must have been Todd's listing on
> Ebay. On top of this, I hadn't spoken to my older brother in some years, so
> I was relying on my memory as the basis for some of my comments. It will be
> interesting to see what concrete documetation you can find to support some
> of these theories & claims surrounding this bike. Your comments about
> Ernesto being a source of information are most likely correct, as Pino &
> Ernesto seemed to loath each other. Pino claimed to have never been paid by
> Ernesto for his work on the hour record bike(s) and Pino cursed Ernesto on
> many occassions. I'm sure Ernesto has & will curse Pino.
>
>
> Dave Patrick
> Chelsea, Michigan
>
> Tam Pham <terminaut@gmail.com> wrote:
> David - I haven't badmouthed you in anyway. I am relaying the thoughts
> and recollections of a prior owner, and also pointed to two of your own
> posts that aren't in agreement with each other. I did not want to squabble
> in public over this. Is that where you want to take it?
>
> -Tam
>
>
>
> On 8/20/06, David Patrick <patrick-ajdb@sbcglobal.net> wrote: Yeah,
> well you had better say the comments below "on list" This stinks. I also
> don't appreciate the comments off-list, as I know John Barron and I've dealt
> with him a fair amount and I don't need you bad mouthing me to people. What
> you've done is crap.
> And I think you should be careful about attaching history to this bike
> before and/or without documentation. I mean, look what happened to me when
> I made some claims about this bike... I get attacked by the likes of you.
>
>
> dp
>
>
> Tam Pham <terminaut@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> David, I emailed John and had already told him I didn't mean for that
> to go to the list. With Gmail's user-interface it's easy to make mistakes
> like that... and I definitely did not want to make it a public issue. I
> appologize for that and assure you it was unintentional.
>
> Anyways - Steven Maasland has agreed to ask Ernesto about the bike once
> the summer shutdown for the Colnago factory is over. Hopefully some concrete
> info will come about, although Steven is fearful that the sour history
> between Cecil/Pino and Ernesto may be an issue and Ernesto would reject any
> discussion of it.
>
> Again - that was truly an inadvertent reply to the list.
>
> -Tam
>
>
> On 8/20/06, David Patrick < patrick-ajdb@sbcglobal.net > wrote: Tam,
>
> Lighten up my boy, as I don't really appreciate your comments directed my
> way and your comments are entirely uncalled for. So, are you gonna nail me
> to a cross later today? If so, can you give me an approximate time, as I'd
> like to get a good ride in first, ok? Whatever I said about this bike was
> conjecture on my part when it appeared on Ebay on the first go round. I was
> guessing that it was the same bike that my brother bought from the Turin
> shop in Chicago, as there aren't too many of these Colnogo/Merckx track
> bikes around, plus this bike was the same size as my brother would have
> ridden. Jeez, sorry if my comments don't fit your theory . It is a fact
> that my brother was very good friends with Pino and also knew Cecil quite
> well, so that added a bit of support to my conjecture. Is there
> documentation on Pino shipping this bike over from Italy? Cecil and Pino
> are both gone, so you are relying on Todd Davis for this info? Todd has
> provided you with the shipping
> documentation? Or is this just hear-say? I guess I'm just asking as I
> don't recall this "colorful" of a history with the bike when it was listed
> on Ebay a few years ago (assuming this is the same bike). Just wondering....
>
>
>
> Dave Patrick
> Chelsea, Michigan
>
>
>
>
> Tam Pham <terminaut@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> Hi John,
>
> Pino set the bike up with the BB as well as lightened the steerer tube
> significantly (see attached photo). I don't know if you followed the
> infamous thread about the "prototype" hour record bike a while back, but
> this is the subject bike.
>
> Cheers,
> -Tam
>
> PS: David Patrick made some claims about the bike that the original person
>
> who bought it from Cecil Behringer says is ridiculous... And David also
> had
> two different stories!
>
> http://search.bikelist.org/
>
> http://search.bikelist.org/
>
>
> The history from Cecil is that this frameset was originally used as a
> prototype of sorts for the hour record effort. In 1982 Pino shipped it
> from
> Italy over to Cecil, and Cecil didn't really have an interest in keeping
> the
> bike as he would rather see it used. He thus sold it to his friend Todd
> Davis on the condition that Todd would put it to good racing, which he did
> for 10 years until he retired. After retiring, Todd then sold the bike and
>
> Noel Smith (a collector) bought it. Noel is now gettting out of bikes and
> I
> picked it up from him.
>
>
>
>
>
> On 8/20/06, John Barron wrote:
> >
> > Tam-
> >
> > How did you deal with the threading requirements for the Pino BB?
> >
> > His BB's are somewhat difficult to deal with because the threading in
> the
> > frame's BB shell must be continous from one end to the other. Most BB
> shells
> > are are threaded for 2 separate cups.
> >
> > Do tell!
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > John Barron
> > Minneapolis MN
> >
> > Tam wrote-
> >
> > Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2006 18:25:08 -0700
> > From: "Tam Pham" < terminaut@gmail.com>
> > To: "Classic Rendezvous" < Classicrendezvous@bikelist.org >
> > Subject: [CR]Pino Morroni BB in action...
> > Message-ID: <
> b27bc5c00608191825o69345db4oa842dc80a3faa018@mail.gmail.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
> > MIME-Version: 1.0
> > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> > Precedence: list
> > Message: 14
> >
> > I was working on one of my project bikes today and noticed that the Pino
> > Morroni bottom bracket is exceptionally smooth. I haven't done any
> > maintenance on the BB since taking ownership of it, and after witnessing
>
> > how
> > freely it spins I can see why Pino went through the trouble of designing
> > his
> > own cartridge system. Anyways, for those who might be bored and have
> > bandwidth to download a 2MB video, check out my 40-second clip at:
> >
> > http://www.fooriders.com/
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Tam Pham
> > Huntington Beach, CA - USA