Fred writes>It seems to me that racers only ride in the drops during the most extreme sprinting situations or in criteriums. Older racing bikes were designed so that you rode in the drops for much longer periods of time.< I think it all depends what period. I would say that up to the fifties racers were more upright. Think of Bahamontes climbing. He was bolt upright. Come the sixties and seventies frames were still big and bars little if any lower but most riders had a lower position because they bent their arms at the elbow. Look at R de V., Merckx or Moser, they are flat backed. Couple of days ago in Tour of Quatar there was a big break and they were all down on the drops the whole time. However their was a big crosswind, maybe in still weather they would have been cruising on the tops. With regard to saddle position fore and aft I don't think it has changed too much but I would say that the average moved forward a touch in the seventies but it moved back later under the influence of Hinault and Lemond. Ray Green, Harrow, Middlesex