Re: [CR]Re: compilation, Snow Proof on leather saddles?

(Example: Framebuilders:Alberto Masi)

Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2007 20:12:45 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Fred Rafael Rednor" <fred_rednor@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [CR]Re: compilation, Snow Proof on leather saddles?
To: hsachs@alumni.rice.edu, larry black <bikelarry@gmail.com>, Classic Rendezvous <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
In-Reply-To: <45F60004.6090505@verizon.net>


Harvey and friends,
    It would take me some time to dig it out, but I have an old brochure - printed and distributed by Brooks - and I'm certain it states that Lon Haldeman used 30 weight motor oil to condition and break in his saddles. Perhaps Larry Black has a copy, too. (I have a feeling I picked it up this brochure at his store, circa 1979.)
    Given the amazing nnumber of replies that Harvey has included here, I'm curious if anyone on this list has actually used the motor oil treatment? Or perhaps of our members from the Midwest rode with Lon in those days and knows thereal story? In any event, why would Brooks publicize such a drastic treatment when they were also selling Proofide?
    Is it that they were merely getting desperate at a time when saddles with plastic bases were gaining general acceptance... and have since abandoned silly suggestions now that their niche in the market has been established? By the way, one thing I can say for Brooks saddles: Even though I have never been comfortable on them, I've never had one weat out. The same cannot be said for my favorite saddles, Concor and Sella Italia Turbo.
     Sorry - no suggestions - just more questions,
     Fred Rednor; Arlington, Virgiania (USA)


--- Harvey Sachs wrote:


> While ago, I raised the question:
>
> "Please share your wisdom with the list if you have long-term
> experience
> using Snow Proof (brand) on quality leather saddles, as an
> alternative
> to or in addition to things like Brooks Prooofhide. some
> seem to think
> it is the best thing ever, and others that it breaks down the
> leather
> and ruins the saddle. Heck, if you don't have experience,
> prejudices
> and urban legends are a close second. :-) "
>
> Here are some of the responses I got, in no particular order
> (but
> grouped), just to get the thread together:
>
> GENERAL:
> Ken Freeman:
> Thanks for the information, but it doesn't mean that SnoSeal
> is
> generally a good choice. It also doesn't mean it's a bad
> choice. It
> only means they (the Cyclopedia experts) had good enough
> experience to
> be feel the recommendation would be helpful. It IS helpful
> to know
> this, but there are many other "recommended" Brooks
> treatments put
> forward, on this list and elsewhere such as iBOB,
> rec.bikes.tech and
> bikeforums.net. In many cases when someone makes such a
> recommendation
> one or several others chime in on how such a technique either
> ruined a
> good saddle, or didn't work the magic that was expected or
> promised.
>
> My main point isn't that "only Proofide can help," because if
> the saddle
> isn't a correct size or shape for your bones, it probably
> won't help. My
> main point IS about advice, and that the listener takes
> responsibility
> for the result by acting on any given piece of advice.
> Considering that
> a new Brooks is not cheap, and that considerable time may be
> invested in
> attempting to break it in, taking risks with it might be a
> bad idea, IMO.
>
> If you've had good results with SnoSeal, or hammering, or
> motor oil, or
> soaking, have at it. But others should keep in mind that it
> might not
> work for them. Considering this is a classic list, there are
> added
> risks when the saddle was original to a classic laid-back
> International
> or PX-10.
>
> Similarly, if a B-17 worked for me (which it did not), that's
> no
> guarantee it will work for someone else. Brooks (and other
> saddle
> companies) offers a variety of sizes and shapes for good
> reasons,
> besides looks, variety, profit, and mojo.
>
>
> SUGGESTED ALTERNATIVES:
> Bruce Thomson:
> I have used another product that seems to work better than
> most I
> have tried on all my leather products. Its Skidmores Leather
> Cream. I
> have used this for many projects and on some darned good
> leather
> saddles. Its not greasy or slick and is not soggy like
> Neatsfoot Oil.
> It has a good reputation and if I said that I used it on my
> cowboy boots
> would you think less of me? O.K. I use it on my Detto and
> Vittoria shoes.
>
> Doug van Cleve:
> The old Cyclopedia catalog recommended SnoSeal for the Brooks
> and
> Ideale saddles they sold...
>
> Reid Fisher:
> My vaguely related experience is in using "Sno-Seal" and
> "Huberd's Shoe
> Grease" on leather snowshoe bindings. They definitely
> protect the
> leather, but they do seem to allow more stretching of the
> leather than
> relatively fresh leather might undergo if untreated. If the
> leather's
> old already, it definitely needs something, and something's
> better than
> nothing. Both of these leave the leather greasy feeling.
>
> I also used "Lexol" on my geologic field belt, and on
> softball mitts --
> also just killer great stuff for preservation. The leather
> on both of
> these has always been old, so I don't know how it affects new
> leather.
> Can't say whether it promotes/allows stretching or not. The
> leather
> feels great afterward, is not greasy.
>
> All of these darken the leather.
>
> Willie Carton:
> i agree that wax, proofhide etc will do the trick... i use
> coacholine,
> red color, probably what Brooks stuff was originally , as a
> lover of tan
> and brown saddles i sure don't let them sit getting wet
> i discovered some new old stock pvc tight fitting covers,
> bright
> yellow with olympic bands.. elastic on the lower edge .. i
> carry one of
> these should i feel the need to stop.
> Brooks also did a waterproof pertex nylon type black slip
> over cover
> back a few years ago, i got a newish one in a trade
>
> MIXED MATERIALS:
> Emanuel Lowi:
> I've been riding the same Brooks Professional since 1974
> and recently got a new Brooks -- my second.
>
> Here's how I've treated #1 (which looks gorgeous, in
> perfect condition, no rotted leather etc.) and how I plan
> to treat #2, despite what all the bigshot mavens out there
> say.
>
> First, apply a good coat of liquid silicone shoe
> waterproofing liquid to top and botton. This is the
> piss-coloured liquid you find at shoe repairs, the pharmacy
> shoe care section, etc. comes with a swab brush inside. Let
> the liquid dry for a day or two at room temperature, not in
> a particularly warm place.
>
> This gives the saddle a basic water-resistant protection
> but also tends to promote dryness.
>
> So, next I apply a coat of Neatsfoot oil (brownish oily
> liquid, get it at the same place) to top and bottom. Let
> that dry the same way and time. This gets a coat oil
> leather-appropriate natural oil over the silicone
> waterproofing.
>
> Then I rub in an application of Mink Oil (which is actually
> a paste) to both sides, dry same way & time. This is a
> thick greasy substance that conditions the leather a
> little.
>
> Lastly, I rub in an application of Brooks Proofide. After a
> few days of drying same way, you ride on the saddle.
>
> About once a year I do the Proofide thing again.
>
> I try not to ride in the rain. But if I get caught in a
> downpour by accident, I let the saddle dry slowly, away
> from heat, undisturbed, for few days. Depending on what I
> have around, I may give it a light treatment after it is
> thoroughly dry, with Mink Oil or Proofide.
>
> Otherwise, I leave it alone.
>
> Do not play around with saddle tension. I may have
> tensioned saddle #1 twice in 25 years. I don't try to speed
> up the breaking in process or get it greasy more than once
> a year, except if it gets soaked.
>
> If it gets scuffed somehow, I dab a drop of Neatsfoot oil
> on the scar and let that dry for a few hours. Then I apply
> good paste black shoe polish, and buff that after a few
> hours, followed by a light application of Proofide. The
> scar usually disappers.
>
> These things are sturdy and built to last and you should
> not fuss over them too much except when they really need
> it.
>
> That's my story.
> STICK WITH PROOFHIDE:
> Ken Freeman:
> Ok, here are some prejudices, since I don't do much to
> saddles to make
> them work:
> If the sagging of an expensive and critical component, a
> favorite
> saddle, is a risk, why would you take it if you don't have
> to? In other
> words, why would you use anything other than what Brooks
> recommended === message truncated ===

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