[CR]Re: Classicrendezvous Digest, Vol 51, Issue 44

> > Ted Ernst wrote:
> >
> > Got to thinking about some of the old bike lingo.
> > This is one I remember from when I was a kid back
> > in the '30's.
> > It was used through the fifties, and slowly died out
> > with the new age riders.
> >
> > Yo-yo-yo-yo-yo. Ted, I would think that this would be something you might yell out in a pack as someone of danger began a jump from the back of the pack and you wanted to alert others to accelerate and close the gap as he came around and drag your tired butt along. In the sixties and seventies , we used to say Aleze-aleze-aleze thinking it was french meaning to go fast, or Up-up-up-up-up. Chris Brown Denver, CO

Chris Brown Davis Partnership Architects 303 861 8555 phone 303 861 3027 fax

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CR

Today's Topics:

1. Re: sitting on the shelves of the Cinelli factory... (Edward Albert) 2. WTB Paletti SR parts (Matt) 3. Re: Brian's Birthday (Michael Allison) 4. If you own a silver Cinelli, don't miss this one (Tom Sanders) 5. Re: sitting on the shelves of the Cinelli factory... (Raymond Dobbins) 6. Re: Clear Coating after paint touch-up, What to Use?? (bruce thomson) 7. Ted test (ternst) 8. 1986 Bicycle Guide Magazine (Kevin Speltz) 9. RE: Ted test (Mark Bulgier) 10. RE: 1986 Bicycle Guide Magazine (Mark Bulgier) 11. RE: Re: compilation, Snow Proof on leather saddles? (Jerome & Elizabeth Moos) 12. sitting on the shelves of the Cinelli factory... (The Maaslands) 13. RE: Ted test (Fred Rafael Rednor) 14. Re: Ted test (ternst) 15. email problems (wilc)

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Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2007 16:01:59 -0400 From: "Edward Albert" <Edward.H.Albert@hofstra.edu> To: <Classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>, <TheMaaslands@comcast.net> Subject: Re: [CR]sitting on the shelves of the Cinelli factory... Message-ID: <s5f96e0e.074@GW15.hofstra.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 1

Not to muddy the waters here but Ray's "B" used to be mine. It is accurately dated to 1967 as I bought it as, for the most part, a frame from the original owner who lived in Sommervile and raced it on the Sommerset Schwinn team as a Jr. The parts on Ray's Cinelli were as accrurate as I could make them. Unless of course Ray changed things out, but he will have to comment on that. Edward Albert Chappaqua, NY, USA
>>> "The Maaslands" <TheMaaslands@comcast.net> 03/15/07 2:26 PM >>> Art wrote:

"Is it really a Cinelli or something else with the oriental head badge applied and other odd bits and measurements? Curious minds want to know.

"

with regards to my auction:

http://tinyurl.com/2uff6k or

http://ebay.com/<blah>

QQitemZ120097886687

There is not one single item on the bike that is oriental. The headbadge

is an Italian made replica. You can see another one of these reproduction badges that I am also offering up for sale on ebay here:

http://ebay.com/<blah>

W0QQitemZ120097188466

These are the best copies that I have ever seen. Personally I prefer these replica badges to the many repinted badges that you come across.

As for the frame, I would invite you to compare the auction bike with Ray Dobbin's Cinelli Mod. B here: http://www.raydobbins.com/cinelli_b/index and you will see that they have more in common than anything else. The predisposition for an oiler hole on the BB shell would date my bike to be older than Ray's. The small frame size was the likely cause for the selection of Universal Mod. 51 brakes instead of the Mod. 61 brakes found on Ray's bike. The non-anodized handlebars are older than the anodized version found on Ray's bike. Both have the same BB cable guide that is marked Brev. Int. Campagnolo instead of the later Brev. Camp. I can't tell from Ray's maasterful photos whether his headset is marked with the <C> or not, but

I take it is (although 1967 is right about the change-over date...)

As for the components, the bike retains most of the parts that were on the bike when it was found. The Magistroni cottered cranks and BB were discarded because they were terribly rusted and I preferred the alloy cottered cranks. The original wheels, which were in rough shape, have also been replaced with wheels built up using all new old stock parts.

If anybody has any questions, please feel free to ask either on or offlist, as well as via ebay questions.

Steven Maasland Moorestown, NJ USA

_______________________________________________

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2007 13:12:03 -0700 (PDT) From: Matt <velomatte@yahoo.com> To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: [CR]WTB Paletti SR parts Message-ID: <587786.7945.qm@web34713.mail.mud.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <797317.51332.qm@web30614.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: list Message: 2

I am looking for a few parts to finish up my Paletti Super Prestige.

I would really like to find a set of Pantographed Super Record brake levers, you may not even know these are for Paletti, they have LP on them, kind of like the SF on a classic Giants baseball cap, surrounded by 4 arrows like the points on a compass. Other than that they look just like the Olmo, Colnago, Ciocc items you usually see with the three diamonds in red, green and white.

I would also love to find pantographed seat post and down tube shifters, but not as concerned with these as the levers.

Thanks, Matt Hamilton Oakland, Ca

___________________________________________________________________________ _________ No need to miss a message. Get email on-the-go with Yahoo! Mail for Mobile. Get started. http://mobile.yahoo.com/mail ------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2007 16:18:36 -0500 From: Michael Allison <cyclo_one@verizon.net> To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Cc: sterling@tns.net Subject: [CR]Re: Brian's Birthday Message-ID: <957c5476051632f8d93ba87ac0688229@verizon.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v624) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 3

I will be riding my 1962 Masi Special this Saturday, even if it wasn't Brian's birthday. That's the fastest way to get the dust off the bike and out of my head. But the ride also honors Brian, who did a fantastic repaint, and John who help me rebuild it.

Happy Birthday Bro.

Michael Allison New York, NY

To honor Brian, I will ride a 79 Masi if it does not snow. Mike Schmidt Sent via BlackBerry from Cingular Wireless

-----Original Message----- From: "John Pergolizzi" <jtperry1@sbcglobal.net> Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2007 08:38:42 To:<sterling@tns.net>,"Classic rendezvous" <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org> Subject: RE: [CR]Masi Bikes in the Ride

i.e.: Masi Bikes in the Ride

Sterling Peters wrote:

"I have a 1972 Grand Criterium I'm riding. Brian has a 1960's Masi Specia l to ride. JB has a Col-Masi"

Pergolizzi has a Confente he say's he's gonna ride.

J.Pergolizzi La Jolla, Ca.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2007 16:20:17 -0400 From: "Tom Sanders" <tsan7759142@sbcglobal.net> To: <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org> Subject: [CR]If you own a silver Cinelli, don't miss this one Message-ID: <001b01c7673f$59735640$9b4dff44@ts> Content-Type: text/plain;charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 4

When doing touch up on paint, I like to use a paint like DeRusto or Rustoleum as a primer and do it in the closest color I can to the finish paint. This way I can fill holes where needed with this anti-rust type paint and it will stick to about anything and is easily painted over with regular bike paints. I recently discovered that Ace Hardware stores have their own brand of anti-rust paint. They call it Stop Rust. To cut to the quick of the matter, they have a color in this paint called Aluminum that even in bright sunlight is a perfect match to Cinelli silver and has all the nice qualities of an anti-rust paint. Not only that , but it is not at all expensive. Tom Sanders Lansing, Mi USA

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2007 13:37:02 -0700 (PDT) From: Raymond Dobbins <raydobbins2003@yahoo.com> To: Edward Albert <Edward.H.Albert@hofstra.edu>, Classicrendezvous@bikelist.org, TheMaaslands@comcast.net Subject: Re: [CR]sitting on the shelves of the Cinelli factory... Message-ID: <701793.13071.qm@web60411.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <s5f96e0e.074@GW15.hofstra.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: list Message: 5

Eddie did a great job putting together my ex B (yup, I sold it). The only thing I changed was the wheelset. It came with small flange Record hubs and Martano bowtie label rims (with grooved sidewalls - special for rain?), and I put on large flange Record hubs with Fiamme red oval label rims. I don't remember if the headset had the <c> marking, and unfortunate ly the bike is now on its way to the new owner.

Steven, what does your bb shell have underneath? Eddie's/mine had a single round hole in the center.

Ray Dobbins Miami FL USA

Edward Albert <Edward.H.Albert@hofstra.edu> wrote: Not to muddy the waters here but Ray's "B" used to be mine. It is accurately dated to 1967 as I bought it as, for the most part, a frame from the original owner who lived in Sommervile and raced it on the Sommerset Schwinn team as a Jr. The parts on Ray's Cinelli were as accrurate as I could make them. Unless of course Ray changed things out, but he will have to comment on that. Edward Albert Chappaqua, NY, USA
>>> "The Maaslands" 03/15/07 2:26 PM >>> Art wrote:

"Is it really a Cinelli or something else with the oriental head badge applied and other odd bits and measurements? Curious minds want to know.

"

with regards to my auction:

http://tinyurl.com/2uff6k or

http://ebay.com/<blah>

QQitemZ120097886687

There is not one single item on the bike that is oriental. The headbadge

is an Italian made replica. You can see another one of these reproduction badges that I am also offering up for sale on ebay here:

http://ebay.com/<blah>

W0QQitemZ120097188466

These are the best copies that I have ever seen. Personally I prefer these replica badges to the many repinted badges that you come across.

As for the frame, I would invite you to compare the auction bike with Ray Dobbin's Cinelli Mod. B here: http://www.raydobbins.com/cinelli_b/index and you will see that they have more in common than anything else. The predisposition for an oiler hole on the BB shell would date my bike to be older than Ray's. The small frame size was the likely cause for the selection of Universal Mod. 51 brakes instead of the Mod. 61 brakes found on Ray's bike. The non-anodized handlebars are older than the anodized version found on Ray's bike. Both have the same BB cable guide that is marked Brev. Int. Campagnolo instead of the later Brev. Camp. I can't tell from Ray's maasterful photos whether his headset is marked with the or not, but

I take it is (although 1967 is right about the change-over date...)

As for the components, the bike retains most of the parts that were on the bike when it was found. The Magistroni cottered cranks and BB were discarded because they were terribly rusted and I preferred the alloy cottered cranks. The original wheels, which were in rough shape, have also been replaced with wheels built up using all new old stock parts.

If anybody has any questions, please feel free to ask either on or offlist, as well as via ebay questions.

Steven Maasland Moorestown, NJ USA

_______________________________________________

_______________________________________________

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2007 13:42:11 -0700 (PDT) From: bruce thomson <masi3v4me@yahoo.com> To: bruce thomson <masi3v4me@yahoo.com>, Classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: Re: [CR]Clear Coating after paint touch-up, What to Use?? Message-ID: <20070315204211.24364.qmail@web51602.mail.re2.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <882037.44622.qm@web51602.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: list Message: 6

As an addendum, I wanted to know if anyone has had experience with the water based polyurethane Varathane Diamond, or I will try the hobby brand of Floquil which has a good reputation for durability. And I still wanted to run it through my air brush. Any experienced painters??

bruce thomson <masi3v4me@yahoo.com> wrote: Folks: I just have finished some extensive touch-up painting on two Motobecanes and wanted to know if some one has experience with a durable clear gloss clear coat that can be easily applied with an air brush. I would prefer if it were to be somewhat gentle on my breathing apparatus...lungs, and if there were a water soluble type to use. A couple of ounces could go a long ways. BT

Bruce Thomson Spokane WA 99204 (509) 747 4314 Masi3v4me@yahoo.com

--------------------------------- Looking for earth-friendly autos? Browse Top Cars by "Green Rating" at Yahoo! Autos' Green Center.

_______________________________________________

Bruce Thomson Spokane WA 99204 (509) 747 4314 Masi3v4me@yahoo.com

--------------------------------- Get your own web address. Have a HUGE year through Yahoo! Small Business.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2007 14:03:58 -0700 From: "ternst" <ternst1@cox.net> To: <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org> Subject: [CR]Ted test Message-ID: <002d01c76745$73855230$0200a8c0@D8XCLL51> Content-Type: text/plain;charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 7

Got to thinking about some of the old bike lingo. This is one I remember from when I was a kid back in the '30's. It was used through the fifties, and slowly died out with the new age riders.

Yo-yo-yo-yo-yo.

You can add or subtract yos if you like, means the same. What does it mean and how did it originate? I have a nice prize for the winner, I'll even send it postage prepaid! First correct answer wins. To be fair, I'll adjust for our time zones in the lower 48 Contest ends 6:00 P.M. Western Daylight Savings Time, Saturday, March 17th, 2007. Happy St. Patrick's Day and good luck on your timely entries! Ted Ernst Palos Verdes Estates CA 90274

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Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2007 14:07:27 -0700 From: "Kevin Speltz" <kls750@gmail.com> To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: [CR]1986 Bicycle Guide Magazine Message-ID: <212ff6910703151407m32cc986cuebf5e1710ea1f24c@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 8

Does anyone know where I might find a copy of the 1986 issue of Bicycle Guide magazine that is featured in the Italian section of CR? I had a copy back in the day when I was first getting into cycling and it started my obsession for Italian steel

Kevin.

-- Kevin Speltz Manager, Roy Street Apartments 112 Roy St #C23 Seattle, WA, 98109 206.284.1833

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2007 14:18:40 -0700 From: "Mark Bulgier" <Mark@bulgier.net> To: "ternst" <ternst1@cox.net>, <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org> Subject: RE: [CR]Ted test Message-ID: <9327C3B25BD3C34A8DBC26145D88A907064410@hippy.home.here> In-Reply-To: <002d01c76745$73855230$0200a8c0@D8XCLL51> References: <002d01c76745$73855230$0200a8c0@D8XCLL51> Content-Type: text/plain;charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 9

Ted Ernst wrote:
>
> Got to thinking about some of the old bike lingo.
> This is one I remember from when I was a kid back in the '30's.
> It was used through the fifties, and slowly died out with the new age
> riders.
>
> Yo-yo-yo-yo-yo.

Well I don't know anything about a "Lingo" bike But the "Ingo" bike, as seen here: http://www.ohtm.org/1935ingo.html had sort of a yo-yo action.

;^)

Mark Bulgier Seattle WA USA ------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2007 14:33:54 -0700 From: "Mark Bulgier" <Mark@bulgier.net> To: "Kevin Speltz" <kls750@gmail.com>, <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org> Subject: RE: [CR]1986 Bicycle Guide Magazine Message-ID: <9327C3B25BD3C34A8DBC26145D88A907064411@hippy.home.here> In-Reply-To: <212ff6910703151407m32cc986cuebf5e1710ea1f24c@mail.gmail.com> References: <212ff6910703151407m32cc986cuebf5e1710ea1f24c@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain;charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 10

Kevin Speltz wrote:
>
> Does anyone know where I might find a copy of the 1986 issue of Bicycle
> Guide magazine that is featured in the Italian section of CR? I had a
> copy back in the day when I was first getting into cycling and it
> started my obsession for Italian steel

I have a scan of the cover here: http://bulgier.net/pics/bike/Articles/Bicycle_Guide_Oct_86_cover.jpg

I don't seem to have scans of the articles though.

Mark Bulgier Seattle WA USA ------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2007 14:57:50 -0700 (PDT) From: Jerome & Elizabeth Moos <jerrymoos@sbcglobal.net> To: Mark Bulgier <Mark@bulgier.net>, Fred Rafael Rednor <fred_rednor@yahoo.com>, Classic Rendezvous <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org> Subject: RE: [CR]Re: compilation, Snow Proof on leather saddles? Message-ID: <881262.31097.qm@web82208.mail.mud.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <9327C3B25BD3C34A8DBC26145D88A90706440B@hippy.home.here> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: list Message: 11

As a chemical engineer with 25 years experience in the petroleum refining business I can say that that petroleum products in general, at least excluding additives, are not a high cancer risk agent. Probably the most carginogenic substance commonly found in petroleum products is Benzene, but that appears in gasoline, which is a much lighter fraction of crude oil than that used to manufacture motor oil. Heavier aromatic compounds (in the same family as Benzene) might present a much smaller cancer risk, but these have always been removed from motor oil to improve its lubricatin g qualities. Motor oil is very similar chemically to peroleum jelly, which people apply directly to the skin, so any carcinogenic properties of motor oil would be solely due to additives.

If Frank Berto really is/was a petroleum engineer, he may not know what he is talking about. That is because in the industry, a Petroleum Engineer refers to an engineer who is involved in finding, drilling and producing crude oil and natural gas from the ground. Petroleum Engineers typically have very limited knowledge of finished petroluem products, as oil refineries are run by Chemical Engineers, with degrees in a different branch of engineering. If heavy aromatics is the concern, for example, many Petroleum Engineers would not know that these are removed from motor oil in the refining process.

I wouldn't use motor oil on a saddle, but only because I would be afraid of damaging the saddle, not out of any cancer concern. Used motor oil, on the other hand, is a completely different story, as it contains metals and all sorts of other contaminants.

Regards,

Jerry Moos Big Spring, TX

Mark Bulgier <Mark@bulgier.net> wrote:

Fred Rafael Rednor wrote:
> [snip] Lon Haldeman used 30 weight motor oil to
> condition and break in his saddles.
> Given the amazing number of replies that Harvey has included
> here, I'm curious if anyone on this list has actually used the
> motor oil treatment?

IIRC, we have been warned by petroleum engineers, Frank Berto among them I believe, to not use motor oil on saddles. I seem to remember the problem was carcinogens, specifically the additives, not the oil per se.

Used motor oil is a known (not just suspected) carcinogen, but I don't remember how bad new motor oil is. Probably varies from brand to brand. But given the aggregate history of the oil companies and the concern they've shown about our health over the years, I sure wouldn't trust the stuff.

Maybe the amount you'd get through padded shorts is small enough to be an acceptable risk to you. For me, just thinking about it would tend to spoil the ride. There are plenty of safer alternatives.

Mark Bulgier Seattle WA USA _______________________________________________

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2007 18:25:28 -0400 From: "The Maaslands" <TheMaaslands@comcast.net> To: <Classicrendezvous@bikelist.org> Subject: [CR]sitting on the shelves of the Cinelli factory... Message-ID: <013301c76750$db1e7740$0200a8c0@HPLAPTOP> References: <701793.13071.qm@web60411.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain;charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 12

Ray wrote:

"Eddie did a great job putting together my ex B (yup, I sold it). The only thing I changed was the wheelset. It came with small flange Record hubs and Martano bowtie label rims (with grooved sidewalls - special for rain?), and I put on large flange Record hubs with Fiamme red oval label rims. I don't remember if the headset had the <c> marking, and unfortunately the bike is now on its way to the new owner.

Steven, what does your bb shell have underneath? Eddie's/mine had a single round hole in the center."

Mine too has a single hole on the underside of the BB shell.

Steven Maasland Moorestown, NJ USA

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2007 15:29:47 -0700 (PDT) From: Fred Rafael Rednor <fred_rednor@yahoo.com> To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: RE: [CR]Ted test Message-ID: <161129.48323.qm@web30603.mail.mud.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <9327C3B25BD3C34A8DBC26145D88A907064410@hippy.home.here> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: list Message: 13

> Ted Ernst wrote: > > Got to thinking about some of the old bike lingo. > This is one I remember from when I was a kid back > in the '30's. > It was used through the fifties, and slowly died out > with the new age riders. > > Yo-yo-yo-yo-yo. Ted, In my youth (somewhat later than yours) we were told to yell something like that to a leadout rider who was going too fast. Then again, that was in NYC, where "yo" was also used as an introductory syllable to all sorts of phrases... Fred Rednor - now in Arlington, Virginia (USA)

___________________________________________________________________________ _________ TV dinner still cooling? Check out "Tonight's Picks" on Yahoo! TV. http://tv.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2007 15:38:48 -0700 From: "ternst" <ternst1@cox.net> To: "Fred Rafael Rednor" <fred_rednor@yahoo.com>, <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org> Subject: Re: [CR]Ted test Message-ID: <004901c76752$b2db8aa0$0200a8c0@D8XCLL51> References: <161129.48323.qm@web30603.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain;format=flowed;charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 14

Sorry Fred. Not quite. When somebody went too hard in front we would always yell :"EASY", and get the guy to adjust the pace to keep the line together.
Ted Ernst
Palos Verdes Estates
CA 90274