[CR]Public apology to listmember Mark Ritz, on the subject of Italvega

(Example: Framebuilding:Tubing)

From: <FujiFish1@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 11 May 2007 13:58:11 EDT
To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
cc: Ritzmon@aim.com
Subject: [CR]Public apology to listmember Mark Ritz, on the subject of Italvega

This probably won't matter in the least to anyone here ... but me, and hopefully to (listmember still?) Mr. Mark Ritz. I just discovered a huge faux pas I made almost two and a half years ago. Peter Bridge posted a question about an Italvega on Ebay in January of 2004. Mark Ritz responded to his question with some good information. I copied Mark's reply post and added on a bit more info. No big deal. However, somehow, I cannot fathom how, I did the "Peter wrote:", and then the "Mark Ritz wrote:" thing for each of their texts, and then went on to talk about Mark Ritz's contribution to my knowledge base as if he hadn't just posted on the subject ... and I left him anonymous (even though it was RIGHT above my text)! After my post, Sheldon privately asked if he could include the meaty middle section on his webpage covering Italvega, giving me credit, and I accepted.

Now, I want to say for the record and for the archives that a great deal of what I have grasped about Italvega came from posts and emails by Mark Ritz. Mark worked for Ben Lawee in the late 70s, as you will see in my faux pas post copied below. Mark is the inside man who brought things to the table that we would not otherwise have access to, and Mark deserves the credit for much of what I wrote, except for the comparisons I was making of bikes in my basement. I am sorry that I got lost and confused in writing my post, by alluding to Mark in the middle of it, but not specifically mentioning him, and that it was not even necessary, since he had text already in the body of that same post. I even mentioned him again at the conclusion of my post! This all looks simply scatterbrained and un-thought out to me, and I feel like an idiot. The only thing I can think of as to how I did this, is that I began writing the post, properly attributing text to each individual, and then was distracted by something else causing me to have to return to my writing later on. And, that when I came back to writing my email, I failed to remember what exactly was already in the copied text body, and failed to read it and be reminded of who had posted on the subject thus far. Or perhaps, I wrote the middle of my email and was distracted, and in finishing I attempted to be more thorough by then using Mark Ritz's name at the beginning and the end, forgetting about the anonymous mention in the middle. Sigh ... I dunno...

This probably sounds like a bunch of mumbo-jumbo, and I'm not sure if I'm explaining myself clearly, but in short, I accidentally partially disregarded Mark Ritz's direct and immediate contribution, utilized info I gathered from him without giving him direct credit, and then went on to let it be published at Sheldon's site with only my name.

Mark, I have sent emails to you in the last year or so that went unanswered, and now I suspect it is because of my error. I was not aware of my error until just last evening when I checked the archives to find your email address for someone else to ask you about Italvega, and stumbled upon my own post. I did not intend to post in that fashion, and am embarrassed by my blind stupidity associated with my posting. Please accept this public apology ... I am truly, very sorry!

Ciao, Mark Agree Southfield MI United States ~ ~ ~

Mark Agree's less than insightful original post, copied from the archives:

Archive-URL: http://search.bikelist.org/getmsg.asp?Filename=classicrendezvous.10401.1255.eml From: FujiFish1(AT)aol.com Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2004 00:04:27 EST Subject: _[CR]Re: Italvega - now here's a little history_ (http://search.bikelist.org/query.asp?SearchString="Re:+Italvega+-+now+here's+a+little+history"&Se archPrefix=@msgsubject&SortBy=MsgDate[a])

In a message dated 1/20/2004 2:38:16 PM Eastern Standard Time, classicrendezvous-request(AT)bikelist.org writes:
> Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2004 13:45:24 -0500
> From: Ritzmon(AT)aol.com
> To: classicrendezvous(AT)bikelist.org, PBridge130(AT)aol.com
> Subject: [CR]Re: Italvega
> >
> Peter writes:
> snip<There's an Italvega on the Bay, apparently 60's, with an early tre-tubi
> sticker. I'd never seen that sticker before -- I always associated tre-tubi
> bikes with the late 70's and early 80's, when there were scads of bikes from
> the likes of Basso and Pinarello, which could be bought for a song, and
> which rode really wonderfully.> end snip
>
> Mark R. subsequently writes: That bike is definitely from the early 70's. I sold them when I worked for Lawee and
> Jones Bicycles in Long Beach during that time. Ben Lawee created and owned
> the Italvega brand, later morphing it into Univega when he moved production
> to a Japanese vendor. Also, according to the Campy timeline on Velo-Retro,
> the Gran Turismo derailleur was introduced in 1970.
>
> Cheers,
> Mark Ritz
> Looking for a 63cm Italvega Superlight in
> Arcata, CA
>

I've been doing quite a bit of digging around about Torpado and Italvega too, since, they were built by Torresini of Torpado. Thanks to information from a list member that used to work for Lawee, and my scouring of the Internet, I have learned a few things.

All Italvegas were made in the Torpado factory, but not all were high end bikes. Torpado made a broad variety of bikes for different uses (including worker, comfort, BMT, ATB, and even motorized) and plenty of the designs overlapped to where Torpados and Italvegas look the same when naked. I have 4 Italvega framesets here in my basement, all different model designations, and all with different features. Thus far, i have documented at least 8 different feature sets on these bikes. The low-mid level framesets have the inverted triangle Columbus foil decal, while the better models have the rectangle Columbus foil decal. The lowest models have no Columbus decal at all, from what I have seen ... and they don't feel like Columbus either. All the bikes were finished and built up in Italy, and shipped whole. Therefore, the paint and decal quality is likely Italian (evidence is there, just look at one!).

Italvegas seem to have been produced from the very early 1970s, to about 1977 or so, but don't quote me on that. I will be bringing a Super Speciale model to the Cirque, from about 1972, that is loaded (or, unloaded, as it were) with superlight/drilled/milled components of the 70s. It built up into a 20lb. bike, at 52cm. This Super Speciale is what I believe to be the "first generation" of their best bike. In about 1973, they came out with the new and improved Superlight model, and it's clone the Super Speciale. The only differences between these two "new" bikes are the decals, and the gruppos used. The framesets were identical, and incorporated drilled Campy dropouts with diamond shaped windows cut into many of the lug tangs, and a super relieved bottom bracket undershell to boot. This is most likely the bike that Mark Ritz is seeking, as well as me. So, if you find the 63cm Superlight, send it to Mark Ritz. But, if you should find a 52cm Superlight or Super Speciale, or a Torpado Superlight with the drillings ... then you pretty much get to name your price from me!!!

Ciao, Mark (never enough about Torpado) Agree Southfield MI

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