Re: [CR]When is a restoration not a restoration?

(Example: History:Ted Ernst)

Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2007 08:00:25 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jerome & Elizabeth Moos <>
Subject: Re: [CR]When is a restoration not a restoration?
To: gabriel l romeu <>,
In-Reply-To: <>
cc: Classic Rendezvous <>
cc: Classic Rendezvous

I think classic cars are the better analogy to bikes than stamps or coins. But I don't think it is true they are only driven to shows. This is true of some, but at least on the TV shows dealing with these, many owners do drive them and/or allow their friends to drive them. Of course not everyone gets to test drive a Bugatti or Ferrari Testa Rosa. But Alan DeCatternay (probably misspelt) on one of the shows, seems to spend his time traveling the world driving 30 to 80 year old Ferraris, Bugattis, Porches, Cobras, etc. What a life. And then there are the Monterrey Classic races, where dozens of owners of rare classic cars actually race them. Goodwood Festival is another such event.

Actually, one of the things that has always appealed to me about collecting classic bikes is that it involves many of the same enjoyable activities connected with classic car collecting, but at only a tiny fraction of the cost, therefore making it accessible to a much wider group of people. Plus, doing a century on that 50's Legnano probably has more health benefit than bombing along some country roads in a Maserati from the same era. It has occurred to me that maybe we should have classic bike races along the lines of Monterrey or Goodwood. Perhaps the reason this has not occurred to any great extent is that, like car collectors, the median age of avid bike collectors is in the 50's. We, however, have to provide our own engines, which makes it more challenging to race a classic bike than a classic car. I suspect the differences in physical condition of bike collectors are much greater than the differences in driving ability of classic car collectors. So classic bike races might be ruined by not being very competitive. So perhaps the various classic rides are a better context for riding our collections than actual races would be.

I do agree with the hope that classic bikes will remain affordable and not become regarded as too expensive to actually ride. I'm not sure a more complete price guide than now exists would necessarily create higher prices, although I can understand the concern. I personally have never had a bike which was only for show, and have no interest in such bikes. I ride every bike I own, and never knowlingly buy a bike which cannot fit me, or a friend or family member for which it is intended.


Jerry Moos Big Spring, TX

gabriel l romeu <> wrote: come on Mike, this is an atrocious idea. currently, the impetus for collecting bikes is as varied as the amount of people participating. Codifying the values would suddenly make certain collections more 'legitimate' based on value. The diversity and interesting approaches to collecting bicycles will suddenly drop because of the new influx of investment collectors. The novice collector will not go by her heart in choosing the bike, there are those 'value' contingencies.

setting values on symbolic items such as coins and stamps are one thing, but placing it on functional items are a completely different and diabolical to the discipline. All of a sudden, every time one takes out a bike to ride they will be lessening it's value. Personal attitudes towards amassing a collection are now directed by a 'guide' as opposed to what one grew up with. For example, the interesting debate on refinishing all of a sudden ends up as a mute point, because rarity will be the determinate. The pristine out of the factory will always trump the refinish. Most of the subjective and interesting discussions on our list are essentially eliminated as collective judgment has more bearing on value rather than quirky individual assessments on other aspects such as ridability and looks.

As i mentioned before, this happened with cameras eliminating the availability of certain types necessary for doing particular types of work back in the seventies. this has happened also with hand woodworking tools. Try and find a good hand jointer plane for less than a fortune out there.

It happened with those classic cars. now they are only driven to and from shows. what a great driving experience!

Anybody want to take this debate to cirque? wrote:
> Why just lay this on the shoulders of one person? Set a task force,
> publish and sell the results. Donate the profits to Operation Smile
> and the cost of operating future Cirque.
> Mikey Schmidt BattleGround Inn 4th Floor

gabriel l romeu
chesterfield nj usa, on my way to cirque tomorrow
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