George,
While I agree with most of your points and am a fan of both marques, I am puzzled as to why you seem so sure that Alberto personally contributed to the construction of this particular Masi Prestige frame. There does not appear to be any empirical evidence to support this. Unlike the early frames when his father was involved in much or all of the day to day brazing, etc. by this point in time Masi as a shop was making a fair number of frames and while obviously not as big a shop as say Colnago (and we all know Ernesto was not personally building any of his frames at that point) Alberto was certainly not the only one building the Masi frames and unless there is hard evidence that he personally built this particular frame I suspect there is a very good chance that other than perhaps seeing it while it was in the shop being constructed by an employee or two, and watching it go out the door, that probably constitutes his degree of personal involvement. That said every Prestige I have seen was a well rendered high quality frame in keeping with the shop it came from regardless who was actually doing the torch work, filing and painting.
Best regards,
Edward Robert Brooks Managing Director Edward Roberts International Auctioneers of the Fine and Rare 1262 West Winwood Drive Lake Forest, Illinois 60045 Phone- 847.295.8696 Facsimile- 847.295.8697 Email- ebrooks@eriwine.com Website- http://www.eriwine.com
_____
From: gholl@optonline.net [mailto:gholl@optonline.net] Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2007 10:56 AM To: ebrooks@eriwine.com Cc: Classic Rendezvous Subject: Re: RE: [CR] pink René Herse vs. Masi Prestige
Both these bicycles have their virtues and their vices. The Herse is a posthumous bike never seen by Herse himself. The admirers of Herse will find in it those things which please them about the marque. That a "master" never does all the work on a given bike from his shop is too well known to be repeated here. But certainly Herse himself had nothing directly to do with this pink bike.
As far as the Masi goes, Mr. Alberto Masi was certainly present and contributed to that bike's construction. One might even aver that in the case of Mr. Alberto Masi, his father was yet a greater "Master", but this maybe quibbling about degrees of greatness. Alberto doesn't simply shine by reflected light.
In sum and in short, I think that both the bikes are desirable in their own way and hope that an active market of collectors will bid them up-it's good for the hobby.
George
George Hollenberg MD
Westport, CT, USA
> I would suggest that as is often the case, in this instance it
> is all too
> easy to making sweeping generalizations. Most members of the CR
> list may
> best appreciate the touring style bicycles from Herse but the racing
> bicycles were also very nice and highly thought of and successfully
> campaigned by a number of European racers. There is certainly a
> case to be
> made that what many people appreciate in addition to the well executed
> details on the frames are Herse's proprietary components and
> this does set
> Herse somewhat apart from several other excellent names. While
> this frame
> may not have been actually made by the "Master", I doubt that
> the Masi in
> question was made by that "Master" either. Both enterprises used
> a number of
> frame builders, or teams of builders, and at the end of the day
> while it is
> nice to be able to attribute a given frame to a specific famous
> builder,what really counts is the construction, finish and ride
> quality of that
> particular frame/bicycle. Even the "Masters" made some frames
> better than
> others.
>
> Edward Robert Brooks
> Managing Director
> Edward Roberts International
> Auctioneers of the Fine and Rare
> 1262 West Winwood Drive
> Lake Forest, Illinois 60045
> Phone- 847.295.8696
> Facsimile- 847.295.8697
> Email- ebrooks@eriwine.com
> Website- http://www.eriwine.com
> -----Original Message-----
> From: classicrendezvous-bounces@bikelist.org
> [mailto:classicrendezvous-bounces@bikelist.org] On Behalf Of
> gholl@optonline.net
> Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2007 7:49 AM
> To: The Maaslands
> Cc: Classic Rendezvous
> Subject: Re: [CR] pink René Herse vs. Masi Prestige
>
> This is a fascinating and well posed series of questions to
> which it is
> not easy to reply.
>
> There are number of critical issues not raised by the poser of
> these qu
> estions. The pink Herse was not made by the hand of the master,
> the
> Masi was. The fame of Herse lies in the area of touring, not
> racing
> bikes. Masi's reputation is purely based on racing bikes-the Prestig
> e being among the more well known. Furthermore, for all I can see,
> the Prestige represents the quintessence of the Masi
> esthetique, whe
> reas the pink Herse is an exception to Herse's more typical
> work, e
> ven in racing bikes.
> Having said all that, the question of price is almost impossible
> to de
> termine because both marques have their adherents who are well
> able to p
> ay for what they want. It may well be that a Herse collector
> will pay
> a premium for an usual example whereas a Masi collector knowing
> that oth
> er similar Masis will come to market (perhaps not in this fine
> condition) will not bid so high. Other market factors, such as
> the various pr
> evious sales of each marque will play a role in the minds of
> bidders whe
> n it comes time to bid.
>
> I hope that both bikes do well-it's good for the hobby.
>
> George
> George Hollenberg MD
> Westport, CT, USA
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: The Maaslands
>
> Date: Tuesday, September 11, 2007 12:50 am
> Subject: [CR] pink René Herse vs. Masi Prestige
> To: CR
>
>
> > Going back to the discussion of the pink René Herse
>
> > http://www.reneherse.com/
>
> >
>
> > I thought it might be interesting to compare it to this Masi
>
> > Prestige:
>
> > http://ebay.com/
> tem=280151879838
> >
>
> > The are both from the same vintage of early 80's. The Masi has
>
> > more
>
> > prestigious componentry, has a historically stronger racing
>
> > palmarès
>
> > as a brand, and the example up for sale is in nearly perfect
>
> > shape. In
>
> > fact it could be NOS. Now look at the workmanship and compare
>
> > the
>
> > internal cabling that was mentioned by another CR member with
>
> > regards to
>
> > the Herse. I suppose that you could state that the person
>
> > responsible
>
> > for the ultimate construction of both bikes have equal degrees
>
> > of
>
> > continuity with the brand namesake.
> >
>
> > Anybody want to comment on the relative merits? How is the
> final
>
> > price
>
> > going to end up?
> >
>
> > Steven Maasland
> > Moorestown, NJ
> > USA
> >
>
> > _______________________
> ________________________
>
> >
>
>
> George Hollenberg MD
>
> CT, USA
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
>
>
George Hollenberg MD
CT, USA