I don't think anybody here was asserting that the keyed washer didn't serve any purpose, but the question usually arises as to whether one could plausibly run without one, if circumstances make it desirable or necessary.
Sure, a washer there will simplify headset assembly and will help prevent loosening if insufficient torque has been applied to the locknut (the true sign of a "shade tree" mechanic, but if you need to cheat some height out of the headset stack, this is the place to start (if finding a headset with one with the proper stack height isn't possible on your vintage machine).
With my mechanical engineering design hat on, I can tell you that a lot of design thoughts and energies (and additional parts) go into making machines that can survive being serviced by hurried and ham-fisted mechanics, professional or amateur...making parts and assemblies that'll survive in the wake of work by somebody who doesn't understand or take time to think through the physics of normal operation.
Scott Minneman San Francisco, CA
-----Original Message----- From: classicrendezvous-bounces@bikelist.org [mailto:classicrendezvous-bounces@bikelist.org] On Behalf Of oroboyz@aol.com Sent: Saturday, January 20, 2007 7:51 AM To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: Re: [CR]headset keyed washers
Wow!
Like Joe, I am astonished that many of you don't think that keyed washer doesn't serve a purpose! Rob is correct in his analysis...
Why would you think those keyed washers are there in the first place, ditto in hubs, pedals, etc?
The first giveaway that a shade tree mechanic has been at work is the absence thereof!
Sure, you may have gotten away with it by tightening the poop out of the headset with two wrenchs (which you should be using in all cases anyway) but correct technique is to lube it up and apply proper torque with a washer to keep the two from migrating...
Oh well, it's your bike so whatever floats your boat I guess! :) Dale Brown cycles de ORO, Inc. 1410 Mill Street Greensboro, North Carolina 27408 USA 336.274.5959 http://www.cyclesdeoro.com http://www.classicrendezvous.com -----Original Message----- From: rdayton@carolina.rr.com To: minneman@onomy.com; oroboyz@aol.com; classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Sent: Sat, 20 Jan 2007 12:46 AM Subject: RE: [CR]headset keyed washers
Well here's my plausible explanation. With a slotted washer the tendency of the adjusting nut to loosen due to bearing friction (as minute as it is) CAN NOT physically be transmitted to the lock nut cause the washer will not spin. When you don't use a keyed washer and jam the lock nut against adjusting nut, you're betting there's enough friction on the threads that they can't loosen as one unit. It most cases that's a very safe bet. It some cases, like an airplane, they use nylocks or cottered/wired castle nuts to make sure. Rob Dayton Charlotte,NC USA
-----Original Message----- From: classicrendezvous-bounces@bikelist.org [mailto:classicrendezvous-bounces@bikelist.org] On Behalf Of Scott L. Minneman Sent: Friday, January 19, 2007 11:29 PM To: oroboyz@aol.com; classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: RE: [CR]headset keyed washers
Dale sez: "Leave it [the keyed washer] out and the headset will vibrate loose."
Wow...I've never seen/had that happen on any bike of mine that's running without a keyed washer...I just use two headset wrenches, lock them very tightly against each other, and they never budge. My old Windsor came with a fork with a fairly short steerer tube, and it's gone thousands of miles without one (without incident), as have numerous other bikes I own or maintain.
I spent a bunch of years in physics and engineering courses, but none if that is helping me formulate a explanation for a properly fitted and assembled headset coming loose in the way Dale describes. Anybody who thinks they have a plausible mechanism by which this would occur care to explain?
Seems relevant, since it seems like vintage bike folk are often doing headset and/or fork changes, and the washer gives us an extra millimeter or two (one direction or the other)
Scott Minneman San Francisco, CA
-----Original Message----- From: classicrendezvous-bounces@bikelist.org [mailto:classicrendezvous-bounces@bikelist.org] On Behalf Of oroboyz@aol.com Sent: Friday, January 19, 2007 4:57 PM To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: Re: [CR]headset keyed washers
Some sort of washer that won't turn (keyed or flat section) is important to the proper adjustment and tightening so it will stay tight for threaded headsets. Leave it out and the headset will vibrate loose.
Smaller builders often do not have the ability or tools to mill a slot/groove in the steerer tube, so most often they file a flat in the steerer threads to accept, albeit a bit sloppily, the keyed washer. A proper fork & headset assembly should never be without a keyed or flat section washer!
Dale Brown cycles de ORO, Inc. 1410 Mill Street Greensboro, North Carolina 27408 USA 336.274.5959 http://www.cyclesdeoro.com http://www.classicrendezvous.com
-----Original Message----- From: chris@velo-orange.com To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Sent: Fri, 19 Jan 2007 1:54 PM Subject: Re: [CR]headset keyed washers
Actually, many of the best custom builders don't mill key ways in their fork
tubes. I guess the washers are nice if you only own one wrench ;<)
Chris
http://velo-orange.blogspot.com/
Kim wrote.
Hi all,
Are keyed washers always used between the race and the locknut of both the upper and lower portion of the headset? What would happen if they were not used. Thanks for the comments. ________________________________________________________________________ Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and security tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from across the web, free AOL Mail and more.
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________________________________________________________________________ Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and security tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from across the web, free AOL Mail and more.