Marcus and Tom and everyone:
I understand and appreciate your points. That does not mean I totally subscribe to the weight you attach to this incident.
My view? Joe was being loose and "with it" within the context of his description of use of tools, that's all. Should he have been that colloquial? I would posture that despite the gravity and seriousness of the historical reality of ghettos and Nazis, those terms have been watered down by popular usage by the passage of time and the hip, irreverant attitudes of the day.
Like it or not, to call something "ghetto" or call someone a "neatness nazi" does not any longer invoke all the horrors of the outcast and abused. Maybe it should, but it just doesn't.
While some of us still are impacted by the very hint of such word usage, others younger or more submerged in certain cultures, think it's no big deal. You & I may lament that fact, but it is no less real.
As list master, I am not interested in becoming the French Academy of correctness because I know how futile that effort would be. While I have a great feeling for the horrors that these words have represented in the past, perhaps it's a good thing that future generations will be less traumatized by their use in other contexts? Or maybe not and our sloppiness in usage is why, for instance, the crazies that deny the holocaust inexpicably exist out there in loonie land, I just don't know....
In any case, my point in lauding Mark's advice was that it is good to slow down, don't be so quick to judge and jump to conclusions. Be more contemplative and less reactive. Seek calm, look for a perspective, be generous in seeking the others point of view, be tolerant, seek peace before condemning. You get it? Dale Brown Greensboro, North Carolina USA http://www.classicrendezvous.com -----Original Message----- From: marcus.e.helman@gm.com To: OROBOYZ@aol.com; classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Sent: Mon, 22 Jan 2007 9:54 AM Subject: [CR]Ghetto semantics
Dale,
I beg to differ with you on this. This is not great stuff. To suggest that "geto" somehow means something different than "ghetto" is absurd. Joe wrote: "Has nothing to do with some historical ghettos from the past." Of course it does. And ghettoes of the present too. Does dropping the h and t somehow change the meaning of the word? This is like using the word "nazi" to refer to overbearing bureaucrats. You cannot ignore the historical meaning of some words.
Ghetto is a noun, that has developed a secondary usage as an adjective. Used as an adjective it means "of the ghetto." Now the subjectivity comes in. For some people that means referring to a bad place where people are forced to live because of circumstances racial, religious, economic, or some combination of those. For others it means pertaining to hip, rapping urban African-Americans, and thus, cool.
Joe uses it to mean not having the right tools to adjust a headset, and then doing a bad job of it. At the very least, I would suggest that there are better words available to describe that situation.
I know this is off topic, but your note went to the whole list, so I think it is fair to broadcast mine as well. Of course I am not the listmaster. . .
Marcus Helman Huntington Woods, MI
Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2007 11:51:03 -0500 From: oroboyz@aol.com To: Mark@bulgier.net, rotab@msn.com, classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: [CR]Was: Ghetto vs. Geto Life. Now: pearls of wisdom... Message-ID: <8C90B9378C16849-1060-F3C1@mblk-r13.sysops.aol.com> In-Reply-To: <9327C3B25BD3C34A8DBC26145D88A90706435E@hippy.home.here> References: <BAY114-DAV11208C0FC6677AD4E6A73AAFAF0@phx.gbl> <9327C3B25BD3C34A8DBC26145D88A90706435E@hippy.home.here> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 11
Mark wrote:
<<...Another example of why you should not be so quick to school or correct
others; you can embarrass yourself. Lord knows I do it all the time! >>
Read, listmembers, and heed! Great stuff, Mark! Thanks.
Dale
Dale Brown Greensboro, North Carolina USA http://www.classicrendezvous.com -----Original Message----- From: Mark@bulgier.net To: rotab@msn.com; classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Sent: Sun, 21 Jan 2007 12:34 AM Subject: RE: [CR]Ghetto vs. Geto Life
Joe Hughes wrote:
> You guys have too much time.....
> Ghetto does not equal geto.
> Geto is correct tool deprivation
> in this case. Has nothing to do
> with some historical ghettos
> from the past.
Joe is right, geto is the correct spelling in this case, though it
doesn't necessarily have a bad connotation; in some quarters it is a
synonym for "cool". See
http://www.urbandictionary.com/
Another example of why you should not be so quick to school or correct others; you can embarrass yourself. Lord knows I do it all the time!
Mark Bulgier Seattle WA USA
Best regards,
Marcus Helman