I agree with what you propose, although Dale in the past has resisted this, fearful I think, of allowing the "camel's nose into the tent". There is already, of course, a rather loosely defined exception for "KOF" frames, generally meaning lugged steel frames with tube diameters and geometries not radically different from those used before 1983.
I also believe that C-Record, Victory/Triomphe, and also Mavic gruppos are more "classic" than modern, but I'm not at all sure the Supreme Listmeister shares that view. In fact he pretty clearly doesn't in regard to Victory/Triomphe.
I should point out though, that "cassette" gears are not necessarily Off-Topic. Not only do the the Dura-Ace AX cassettes and (I think) the Maillard Helicomatic predate 1983, but I have a Baylis-Wiley (or is it Wiley-Baylis?) cassette hub from the 60's or maybe even late 50's.
Regards,
Jerry Moos Big Spring, TX
Syke - Deranged Few M/C <sykerocker@yahoo.com> wrote: Since this is turning into a general thread of discussion, please bear with me while I toss in my point of view.
This site has been invaluable to me - having dropped out of EVERYTHING between 1978 and 2005, you guys have been one hell of a help in catching me up on what I missed, both in knowledge and hard parts. What drives me nuts, beyond the inevitable anorak-ish discussion of Masi (bearable) or the proper use of ghetto (please, let that horse die in peace - NOW!!!), is that when I need an answer to something that goes beyond December 31, 1983, I can't get it here.
As I write this, out of the six bikes either hanging on the garage wall, or sitting in the back room at work are a late 60's Magneet (my long haul tourer), an early 70's Gitane Tour de France (the bike that tried to kill me), and a mid/late 80's Rossin RL (my absolutely favorite ride). The total significant difference between those three bikes is that the right shift lever on the Rossin goes 'click' when I change gears. Period. Yet I can't ask any questions regarding the bike because it's off-topic.
I'd like to suggest a slight broadening of the allowable topics - no, not the classic bike/car bit of 25 years. Doing that, within ten years of starting the transition we'd be so far off-topic that the group no longer has any meaning.
What I'd like to suggest is a small allowance for newer technology - as long as we're still talking a lightweight road bike, the frame is lugged (with allowance made for parallel technologies of the same years and intent), the gears do NOT shift from the brake levers, and the rear gearing is not cassette, we make it allowable. Despite the 'radical' changes of 1984, those pre-1990 bikes still had a lot more in common with something made in 1971 than one from 2001.
Just tossing out a thread for thought - yeah, my intent is selfish (boy, are there the questions I'm going to ask if we add as little as seven years to the allowable range), but I'm wondering if it wouldn't be a good move overall.
Looking forward to hearing other supportive/contrary opinions.
George R. "Syke" Paczolt Montpelier, VA USA
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