AW: [CR]Re: Derny

Example: Framebuilders:Richard Moon

From: "Schmid" <>
To: "'Hilary Stone'" <>, "'Mitch Harris'" <>
Subject: AW: [CR]Re: Derny
Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2007 11:55:44 +0100
In-Reply-To: <>
cc: 'Classicrendezvous' <>
cc: 'Classicrendezvous'

Fellow Listmembers, As far as my understanding goes (and i am by no means an expert in track racing) there are two sorts of motorbikes used for diefferent Races, the mentioned Dernys for motorpacing on the track like in Keirin racing and Stayer Motorbikes for stayers races. The latter have a roller at their back since the rider of the motorbike is standing on the footrests while pacing to give more wind deflection for the bike rider who is follwing up pretty close. In Germany we have a saying "Der ist von der Rolle" meaning somebody is getting crazy or behaving agressively. It origins from the beginning of the last century were track bike racing was extremely popular, even more than our national sport soccer. They used the saying when a rider was not able anymore to stay behind the motorbike in a stayer race and lost "touch" with the attached roller and there for got angry for loosing the race. Although nobody is watching stayer races anymore the saying is still present in our daily language.

Michael Schmid Oberammergau Germany Tel.: +49 8821 798790 Fax.:+49 8821 798791 mail:

-----Urspr√ľngliche Nachricht----- Von: [] Im Auftrag von Hilary Stone Gesendet: Sonntag, 11. November 2007 14:48 An: Mitch Harris Cc: Fred Rednor; Classicrendezvous Betreff: Re: [CR]Re: Derny

Derny was the name of a specific company that manufactured Entraineurs (used to pace bicycles in certain road races and on the track) and for training. They also made other machines for touring and a tandem for touring as well as something that was close to being a moped. Modern Dernys are still being made in Europe with I think mostly Steyr Puch motors. The rules governing the design and construction of these machines have not changed significantly over the years and do not allow for any variation in design. They do not have rollers. Only the full size pacing motorbikes have rollers. Many tracks do have have adapted motorcycles for training and many have rollers but these are not Dernys in any sense of the word.

Please some pictures I posted at:

These pictures apart from the model are from the Boneshaker article on Dernys.

Hilary Stone, Bristol, England

Mitch Harris wrote:
> On Nov 10, 2007 12:55 PM, Fred Rednor <> wrote:
>> > <> wrote:
>> > > No, Dernys do not have a roller -
>> >
>> > Perhaps not typically (?) but I've ridden a lot of miles
>> > behind different dernys that were fitted with rollers in
>> > back.
>> Perhaps the bone of contention here is that there are the orginal
>> dernies, made in France by the Derny brothers, and there are "generic
>> dernies" made by others. It's like Kleenex and kleenex, or Hoover
>> and hoover. (Or bespoke vs. Bespoke, for that matter.) Perhaps none
>> of this will make sense, unless you are both a native English speaker
>> and a long time member of the CR list. (If you're confused, I can
>> explain off-list.)
> Perhaps the difference is an aftermarket change. Another difference is
> that my experience is out-of-timeline (late 80s/90s) with small fleets
> of otherwise identical Dernys in Europe where some of them had the
> roller and some not. The roller looked like something that could have
> been added. Hilary's information would suggest that Dernys were not
> supplied stock with rollers.
> Mitch Harris
> Little Rock Canyon, Utah